It's not just for taxes anymore...

Paul

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Paul »

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I have never quite understood all of the legal language that he had in his reply. Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean.
Welcome to quatloos!

I wouldn't dream of trying to explain what that is supposed to mean. It's a bunch of legal words that were written down on separate pieces of confetti, run through a snow blower, and then taped together by a blind chimpanzee. Any resemblance to a coherent thought is due to random chance.

You're not an idiot until you start saying, "Hey, I think he's got something there!"
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

notyour*itch wrote:...
At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I have never quite understood all of the legal language that he had in his reply. Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean.
The short version of the story is the promoters of these schemes want their followers to believe in them and they prey on people who are vulnerable and provide them a supposed "life line" to the elimination of their perceived problems.
notyour*itch wrote: ... Law really has never been my area, although I do understand bits and pieces. I gathered that Admiralty Law bit has something to do with property. It all did rather look like he was trying to establish ownership. :lol:

I hope someone can explain it without thinking me too stupid.
The fact that you pulled yourself out of the whirlpool indicates you are far from stupid.

Would you read an x-ray and offer a diagnosis that might involve breast cancer? Would you read the blood test results of a possible heart attack victim and prescribe treatment? Would you prescribe a massive dose of antibiotics for a child with a fever?

No, you wouldn't. But there are people out there who promote equally specious approaches to the subject of law and when they are proven wrong, they chalk up the results to the system being aligned against them.

People love conspiracies. It helps explain the inexplicable.

IMHO, your ex was not trying to establish ownership; he was simply a pawn in a scheme designed to keep some nitwit guru afloat.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Demosthenes »

notyour*itch wrote:At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I have never quite understood all of the legal language that he had in his reply. Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean. Law really has never been my area, although I do understand bits and pieces. I gathered that Admiralty Law bit has something to do with property. It all did rather look like he was trying to establish ownership. :lol:

I hope someone can explain it without thinking me too stupid.
You're only stupid if the stuff made sense to you.

The link I posted earlier contains an article explaining some of the redemption theories.

http://www.redcrayons.net/splc_kane.pdf
Demo.
LOBO

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by LOBO »

notyour*itch wrote:At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I have never quite understood all of the legal language that he had in his reply. Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean.
Apparently, your ex didn't write his reply in red crayon. The language he used isn't understandable to the unlearned unless its in red crayon.
I gathered that Admiralty Law bit has something to do with property. It all did rather look like he was trying to establish ownership. :lol:

I hope someone can explain it without thinking me too stupid.
Admirality Law means that he is under the jurisdiction of the British Lizard People. Nothing to be alarmed about unless he gave you something to dress in with golden fringe.

Seriusly, welcome.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by JamesVincent »

Welcome aboard!

I can tell you flat out that your not stupid for not understanding the gibberish that goes into many 'sovrun documents or not understanding the whole thought process that goes into writing them. Ive only been here a year or so but I can tell you that some of the stuff thats floated through here is absolutely mind-boggling sometimes. And the worse part is that they believe it whole heartedly and will do whatever they think is necessary to make you believe it too. From your brief description of your exes younger life and life with you he sounds like an atypical 'sovrun, the type that show up in court and demand the judge be arrested for daring to address him by his actual name, not his free person name and woah if the docs arent signed in red ink. Tsk tsk.

From what I can understand with the Admiralty crap is since they dont consider themselves citizens of the United States then the courts of the United States have no authority over them so they have concocted a court system that does apply to them. Some of the things we see is they convene a "common law court" down at the local Denny's and thats the court they believes applies to them. Youll see a lot of references to "common law" meaning British Common Law which doesnt apply to us non-British citizens but which they believe is what they follow. Its gets very confusing and down right funny sometimes looking at the lengths that they go to prove themselves non-citizens but usually just end up in lockup somewhere if not dead since they also dont believe that police officers apply to them either.

If you havent done so already, take a wander through the sovereign forum area and youll see that what you ran into and saw isnt new and has nothing to do with you at all, except that you unfortunately got involved with one. Congratulations on getting away from it when you did. If you have questions or need some advice PM any of us and well help you out if we can.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by grixit »

The bottom line is this: whatever the situation is, taxes, mortgage, car registration, or in this case marriage, the laws that seem to clearly go against the subject, in this case your ex, are actually sham laws. And once the sham laws are cleared away, the real laws will be revealed and those real laws say that the subject is entirely in the right. In the mind of the subject, that is a given, it only remains to determine which real laws apply and then what words to use to reveal them.

So, the subject being your ex, the given is that you are not allowed to divorce him without his consent. Nothing will change his mind about that, any loss in court is not a real loss, merely proof that he needs to dig deeper, and possibly expose a conspiracy against him.

So don't try to understand his "filings" he's just going to keep changing them.
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notorial dissent
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notorial dissent »

What it all boils down to is that the reason none of it makes sense, is because none of it really makes any kind of sense at all. It is all just legal sounding gibberish that they don't understand, so they assume it has some power to prove them right, and of course, it never does. The win ratio for this sort of thing is 0 for all. None of the stuff your ex filed has any legal substance to it, as the courts kept proving by ruling against it, and him. They always wonder why they lose at these things, and that is why.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by wserra »

notyour*itch wrote:Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean. Law really has never been my area
And it wouldn't help you if it was. Several of the regulars here are lawyers. At least three have posted to this thread. Others, while not lawyers, know more about certain areas of the law (specifically tax) than do most lawyers.

This stuff makes no sense to us either, because it's simply random legal-sounding words strung together. Don't think of it as law. Think of it as incantation, like "Abracadabra" or "Open sesame". People like your ex who use it believe (or at least hope) that it has magical effects. Intone the right words and your preferred Good Thing will occur. The fact that it never does is a momentary setback, and only happens because of the BAR | corrupt courts | Illuminati | Trilateral Commission | Jews | Bilderbergs | [insert your favorite conspiracy here]. Most of the people who sell it are just in it for the money, although a couple appear to be true believers. They lose too, just like the rest of 'em.

Do you know how your ex first dived into the cream cheese?
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Thule »

notyour*itch wrote:Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean. Law really has never been my area, although I do understand bits and pieces.
Welcome to Q. Well, law is my area, but this admirality/sovrun cr*p is not law. Like wserra said; it's best descibed as magic. Say some strange words, and the world will instantly conform to your wishes. Also, if it doesen't work, it's because your voodoo is not strong enough, you need my "Sovrun Voodoo Enhancement Kit", just 199.99.

It's supposed to mean that if he says "no" in the excact right way, ain't nobody gonna force him to divorce, no sirree.

Success rate of this strategy; 0 %
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by LPC »

notyour*itch wrote:
The pleadings were all marked with the following language: "Received 1-19-10," "Timely Response," "Accepted for Value exempt from levy," husband‘s apparent signature dated January 21, 2010, and "Exemption ID No. . . .Deposit to United States treasury and charge the same to [husband.]"
At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I have never quite understood all of the legal language that he had in his reply. Perhaps someone could explain in plain language what it all was "supposed" to mean.
Others have explained that the "legal language" is gibberish, but I'd like to give you a more detailed example from the word salad above.

(And, for what it's worth, I'm a lawyer, and I've been studying this kind of gibberish for many years, and it really is gibberish.)

"Accepted for Value" is a phrase some people believe has magical meaning under the Uniform Commercial Code (which has been enacted in every state, as well as the District of Columbia). See, for example, "What does Accepted for Value Mean?", which states on the cover page:
Millions of people use the phrase “accepted for value” everyday without knowing what it means and why it is so powerful. You have the right to make personal choices that affect your commercial affairs. You can be in control, or you can be controlled. Acceptance for value is one means of being in control.
How does acceptance for value put you in control? I have no idea, but after citing various definitions of words under the UCC, the author states at page 3 (of 50) that:
The right to be the creditor is what you get when you A4V [accept for value] an instrument that is issued and transferred for value, like a tax bill, penal action “indictment,” or speeding ticket.
Well, that's obviously nonsense because the UCC is a statute that governs *commercial* transactions (duh!), and has nothing to do with tax bills, criminal indictments, or speeding tickets, all of which are governed by completely separate and different statutes.

Although the intended meaning of "accepted for value" is incomprehensible, the intended purpose is clear, which is that your husband wanted to be "in control," and he thought that scrawling that phrase on court pleadings would put him "in control."

His use of the phrase "exempt from levy" is also a mystery. The word "levy" is most often used to describe the imposition or collection of taxes, but it can also mean a process of seizing property to collect debts other than taxes. Certain types of property can be exempt from levy by state statute or federal statute (the types of property exempt from federal tax levies are listed at 20 U.S.C. §6334).

So what did your husband mean when he wrote "exempt from levy" on a divorce pleading? Was he declaring that something was exempt from levy (which he has no power to do), or was he expressing an opinion that it was exempt from levy (an opinion which is almost certainly wrong)? And *what* did he think was exempt from levy? The pleading itself? The marriage itself? His property? Your property?

It all makes no sense.

So he took a phrase from commercial law and a phrase from tax law, jammed them together, and wrote them on a divorce pleading, and the result is incoherent gibberish. It's like reading a recipe for lemon meringue pie and finding an instruction to "weld the I-beams together using spherical trigonometry." It's just nonsense.
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notorial dissent
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notorial dissent »

As Dan so rightly puts it, "It's just nonsense", that's all it is, nonsense.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

Welcome to Quatloos, Kelly!

Other Quatloosians have done an excellent job explaining what your ex is trying to do; so I'll confine myself, here, to observing that these "sovereign citizen" types seem obsessed with "proving" to us that the system of laws and courts that the rest of us know is merely an evil sham designed to deprive us of the rights that we all should enjoy. However, under the concept of "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", they have used legal-sounding language and forms, and quotes selectively mined from real laws and real court decisions to construct a parallel legal system which, they insist loud and long, is the "true" one.

That's why you'll see, for example, references to a "common law court" held in a Fort Worth church, in another thread. You'll see demands for a "true Article III court", demands to have a case brought before something like "Our One Supreme Court in and for the Republic of (insert your state's name here), and the like. I could go on and on; but the short answer is that, as the others have said, it's all a bunch of hogwash that, at the very least, wastes peoples' time, and can lead them to disaster when the genuine legal system catches up with them. As time goes on, you'll be even happier, than you already are, that you escaped this Bizarro world of "justice".
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Pantherphil »

Kelly.
Congratulations on having the wisdom to recognize nonsense when you see it.

Here's a tidbit of information from another Quatloos lawyer.

The law of admiralty is primarily related to ships, sailors, workers in marine related industries (such as longshoremen, stevedores, and harbor workers), events occurring on the high seas or navigable waters of the United States, enforcement of "ship mortgages," adjudication of claims for salvage, death on the high seas, and other maritime related situations relating to maritime commerce. Admiralty cases are heard in the U.S. District Courts (federal courts) under specialized court rules and procedures which only apply in admiralty. These are very arcane areas of the law which most participants in the legal system never have to know about or deal with. The typical lay person will never have a need to know about the admiralty court.

The law of admiralty has absolutely nothing to do with divorce or child custody cases which are exclusively matters to be heard in state courts. The law of admiralty has no bearing on traffic tickets, contract disputes, tort claims, tax laws, or criminal law cases. Anyone who suggests that admiralty law is involved in such cases demonstrates complete ignorance of the law.

There is a sub species of sovereign nut jobs who believe that the presence of a flag with a gold fringe in the courtroom is proof that a court is an admiralty court and that they are not subject to trial in an admiralty court. This is, of course, complete nonsense. LPC has a great write up on the "gold fringe flag" arguments of which there are several variants.

Good luck.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notyour*itch »

I am so glad to be reassured that I'm not the one that is completely nuts. I know that I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I did allow myself to be sucked in by someone that could be very charming when he wanted to be. My fault, I was young and foolish, but it was still my fault. I did a whole mess of stupid things in my youth.
Do you know how your ex first dived into the cream cheese?
This would be a tough one to answer in one breath. He always has had a *theory* that the world is against him. His mother even says that at about age 5 he thought the rules didn’t apply to him. His MMPI results showed that he thought he was above the law, so to speak. His family is/was so screwed up so he probably never had a chance. I suppose being young and naïve, I saw someone I could try to “fix” and make better. I was wrong. I did try to honor my wedding vows, but sometimes you just can’t when someone else doesn’t want to work at it.
notyour*itch

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notyour*itch »

I do have one other request for, at the very least, information or assistance from anyone on this earth that still has a heart left.

Born out of my own bad choices (obviously) I am about neck deep in debt, part of which of course is taxes. While the ex did help rack up a ton of this debt and helped influence me to purchase things that I normally wouldn't have bought (timeshares, raw land in AZ), I know that ultimately I am the total idiot that did it.

What I am asking for is some very cheap or pro-bono help to do a bankruptcy. I am quite sure that nothing can be done about my back taxes, but I'm not sure on how to work with the IRS and the state to possibly reduce my debt. As it is, I am working temps and just got a letter from Kelly Services with forms/letters from the IRS to garnish my wages and leaving me less than $200 a week. Costs me almost that much to go to and from work...

I normally never beg for help, but I am going to have to. I don't know what else to do. I know no one here owes me anything and has absolutely no reason to trust or help me. I just don't qualify for any help from anywhere and I even still have my divorce lawyer to pay because I had to live on a little bit of my student loans...

I'll understand if no one cares...why should you? :) I would do as much as I possibly could of the typing, work, whatever.

Meh, who am I kidding? LOL No one will care.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by wserra »

notyour*itch wrote:I did a whole mess of stupid things in my youth
Who didn't? It's amazing that ten percent of us live to be adults. You are being too hard on yourself.
What I am asking for is some very cheap or pro-bono help to do a bankruptcy. I am quite sure that nothing can be done about my back taxes
Don't be so sure. I'm not a bankruptcy practitioner, but under certain circumstances income tax debt is in fact dischargeable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Findlaw has a summary here. It can get complicated.

Your best bet may be a law school that has a consumer law / bankruptcy clinic. Law school clinics usually do a fine job for those they represent - the students are closely supervised by experienced practitioners - but they are quite limited in how many clients they can accept. (I was in one many years ago, and teach at the law school level now.) I invite you to tell me where you are in a PM, and I may be able to connect you with one.

Tough spot. As I wrote above, it's frequently the families that these idjits hurt the most. Sorry.
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Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by jg »

Low Income Taxpayer Clinics!
The Low Income Taxpayer Clinic (LITC) program serves individuals who have a problem with the Internal Revenue Service and whose income is below a certain level. LITCs are independent from the IRS. Most LITCs can provide representation before the IRS or in court on audits, tax collection disputes, and other issues for free or for a small fee.

For more details and links see http://www.irs.gov/advocate/article/0,, ... 91,00.html

Assistance of the Taxpayer Advocate Service is available for those taxpayers experiencing particular hardship navigating the IRS. Postponement of collection actions in certain hardship cases is possible. Financial information will generally have to be provided.
For contact information see http://www.irs.gov/advocate/article/0,, ... 13,00.html

Though not certain help is to be found, the cost is minimal and well worth the effort.
Best wishes!
“Where there is an income tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income.” — Plato
notyour*itch

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notyour*itch »

Notyour - you do have one advantage on your side (I am guessing) and that is you are young. It is a lot easier to recover from doing stupid stuff in our youth than it is if you are 40, 50, 60 and beyond.
LOL - How I wish that I still had youth on my side...but I haven't. I am almost 46 now. I will have to see how it plays out with one of the other kind people on here. My fiance is going to make an appointment for me with a gent that used to do his taxes to see if we can at least get some kind of payment plan for me and possibly negotiate a lower debt, if that is in the realm of things that he does.

This just pains me in general as I'm not someone that usually asks for any kind of help - I usually am the one to do my best to help anyone else. I don't like being in this spot one bit. It's hard to swallow one's pride and even harder to turn to strangers - for me anyway. I just feel that I must have done something horrible in my life to have things turn on me so badly. I have to figure out what is must be and turn it around. :)

Thank you much... I have many things to look at and ponder.
Nikki

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by Nikki »

Also, it might not hurt to contact the loal branch of the Taxpayers Advocate office.

They might be able to provide some useful advice.

Also, when you talk to the clinic lawyer, see what he/she can do with ionnocent spouse. It might be totally nothing, but it might just leave you with what you (h=not him) owe.

Good luck and keep posting. Sometimes talking helps.
notyour*itch

Re: It's not just for taxes anymore...

Post by notyour*itch »

All in all, there must have a reason that there was an interest taken in my (odd) divorce case and that I ran a search on the ex's name and found it posted here. I do hope that I can use all the help you all give me and not screw it up.