Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas line

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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby grixit » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:22 am

He appears to have been using what i like to call "IRA Logic", as in "if you blow up enough irish people, the british will leave". In this case, he seemed to think that blowing up innocent citizens would change the policy of the ebbul guvment.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby notorial dissent » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:01 am

Or maybe, he's just plain stupid, which from prior actions would seem to be a good start. It would seem he has some serious authority and aggression issues, a lot of pent up frustration, and not a little prone to violence. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out he has some serious personality disorder problems as well, that have apparently been long untreated. I don't know if he is clinically incompetent or not, but I would definitely go for seriously socially incompetent, and definitely does not play well with others.

The scary thing, is, as was pointed out, if he had managed to set that pipeline off, Plano would be nothing but a bad memory, and a very deep hole. That much gas going boom that way would not be pretty. We haven't had a really bad gas line explosion in a while, and people tend to forget what happens with them, not nice.

One way or another, I think Mr Chi needs a really long and permanent vacation away from the rest of the civilized, and not so civilized world, for everyone's benefit and safety.

I wonder, can he be tried for attempted mass murder along with the WMD charges? As that was certainly his intention when he went out there with that bomb.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:59 am

He is pretty close to what the British Army call an "own goal" (he hasn't got the Darwin Award yet, but getting himself and nothing else must come close). I'd be very surprised if he isn't charged with a terrorist type charge later.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby notorial dissent » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:10 am

Well, if anyone should be charged under the terrorist statues, I think he qualifies.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Doktor Avalanche » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:27 am

notorial dissent wrote:Well, if anyone should be charged under the terrorist statues, I think he qualifies.


Oh, hell yes they're gonna charge him with terrorism! And it wouldn't be without precedent.

December 2005 A Pennsylvania man, Michael Curtis Reynolds, is charged with plotting to blow up a Wyoming natural gas refinery. He sought to enlist Al Qaeda operatives to engage in attacks on pipelines and refinery targets.


http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... attacks-an
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Famspear » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:06 pm

The Dallas Morning News is reporting that after the authorities searched his bedroom in his parents' home:

....a bomb squad hauled a device out of the house, encased it in a protective steel container, buried it in a hole in Kaufman County and blew it up....


-----Avi Selk, June 25, 2012, "New court docs: Makeshift lab, terrorism books found in Plano bomb suspect’s bedroom," Dallas Morning News.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012/06 ... room.html/
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Famspear » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Another news report, this one from WFAA-TV in Dallas-Fort Worth on June 22 & 23rd:

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Plano-ma ... 4255.html#

Excerpts:

The man who federal agents believe detonated a homemade bomb in a Plano neighborhood had a deep mistrust for the U.S. government.

[ . . . ]

"It's not just the IRS," said Anson Chi in a 2007 online radio interview. "It's also the government and the federal reserve. It's everything tied together, and they're all working as one. And so, you can't just attack one part of the dragon, you've got to attack the whole dragon and slay the head off."


Paranoid Personality Disorder?

More from the article:

Described by neighbors as 'glum' and a 'spooky recluse,'

[ . . . ]

News 8 learned Chi published a 2008 e-book titled "Yellow on the Inside, Shame on the Outside," where he discussed his frustrations with his parents, threatened to kill himself and admits he needs counseling. He claims it's fiction, but based partially on his life.

[ . . . ]

Chi also posted an online tirade on YouTube, ranting against the government, physically ripping apart a federal income tax form and swearing. Chi often said there is no law requiring average American citizens to pay income tax.

"I will not file, nor will I pay a single penny in income tax until I see the law," Chi said in the video.


And nobody will show you the law, Mr. Chi, until you come up with something better than that lame, shopworn bit of tax protester rhetoric.

Oh, but wait! There's more.....

He backed Libertarian causes and described himself as a campaign director and contributor to Ron Paul's presidential campaigns.


What a surprise......

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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby webhick » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:13 pm

Is anyone else still trying to figure out how one might "slay the head off" something?
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:18 pm

webhick wrote:Is anyone else still trying to figure out how one might "slay the head off" something?
The phrase "heading the dragon" came to mind. (I'm sorry. I have a cold.) Why and what it means I have no idea but I have this short video clip in my head as someone runs up to a dragon and tries to head-butt it. Unsuccessfully.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby webhick » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:36 pm

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
webhick wrote:Is anyone else still trying to figure out how one might "slay the head off" something?
The phrase "heading the dragon" came to mind. (I'm sorry. I have a cold.) Why and what it means I have no idea but I have this short video clip in my head as someone runs up to a dragon and tries to head-butt it. Unsuccessfully.


"Heading the dragon" sounds like a euphemism, so my clip looks nothing like yours.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby grixit » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:04 pm

webhick wrote:
ArthurWankspittle wrote:
webhick wrote:Is anyone else still trying to figure out how one might "slay the head off" something?
The phrase "heading the dragon" came to mind. (I'm sorry. I have a cold.) Why and what it means I have no idea but I have this short video clip in my head as someone runs up to a dragon and tries to head-butt it. Unsuccessfully.


"Heading the dragon" sounds like a euphemism, so my clip looks nothing like yours.


And the interns featured in your video are remarkably flexible.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Famspear » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:13 am

From the Associated Press, via the Austin Statesman, on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 (excerpt):

A man accused of trying to blow up a natural gas pipeline in suburban Dallas limped into a federal court for a detention hearing [on Tuesday, June 26th].

Anson Chi (CHEE) showed the effects of injuries from what investigators say was an apparent premature detonation of a bomb he's accused of assembling. Aside from staggering into the Dallas courtroom of U.S. Magistrate Irma Carrillo Ramirez, Chi also had lacerations to his face, one eye swollen shut and bandages on both arms and one hand....


http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/man ... 04736.html

I'm sorry, but a part of me just thinks that's funny.

Am I a baaaaaaaaaad person?

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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Famspear » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:23 am

From WFAA-TV Dallas-Fort Worth, on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 (excerpts):

....Anson Chi, 33, limped into Earle Cabell Federal Building and Courthouse in Dallas Tuesday afternoon, showing several signs of the traumatic injuries he suffered, allegedly when a homemade explosive device detonated last week.

[ . . . ]

On Tuesday, U.S. Marshals led Chi into the courtroom. He was shackled, wearing a bright orange jumpsuit.

He hardly resembled the man in his MySpace photos.

His face had deep cuts. One of his eyes was shut closed. He wore bandages on both arms. His left arm was bandaged from his fingers to shoulder......


http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Plano-bo ... 20735.html

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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Famspear » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:45 am

From the Anti-Defamation League's web site, Tuesday, June 26, 2012:

Anson Chi, the north Texas man authorities suspect bombed a natural gas pipeline station in Plano, Texas, on June 18, is an anti-government extremist active in the tax protest movement.

Chi, 32, a former engineer who claimed to have “retired” but was living with his parents, supported many causes, including environmental and animal rights causes, but the convictions he expressed most strongly in on-line writings were anti-government ones. He routinely posted anti-government comments to his Facebook Wall, collecting them from both the right and left.

However, statements by Chi in recent years reveal a strong connection with the right-wing “patriot movement,” especially its tax protest branch.

[. . . .]

In 2010, after fellow tax protester Joseph Andrew Stack flew his plane into an IRS building in Austin, Texas, in a suicide attack, Chi posted a link to Stack’s suicide note while proclaiming, “Bring down the IRS!”

Chi’s postings reveal familiarity with the movement’s pseudo-legal arguments, as well as key figures. Chi easily rattled off the names of tax protest gurus and court cases involving tax protesters. Saying he was a “paralegal,” Chi claimed to be friends with tax protest movement attorneys Tom Cryer and Larry Becraft, and to have attended the trial of Sherry Jackson, a former IRS employee who joined the tax protest movement and was convicted in 2007 of failing to file income tax returns.

Chi was also familiar with the pseudo-legal arguments of the sovereign citizen movement, proclaiming in late 2010 that he knew “all about admiralty maritime law and the strawman theory.”

Chi’s other fixation was on the banking system; like many anti-government extremists, he was obsessed with “international bankers” and the Federal Reserve.....


--From Anti-Defamation League, "Suspected Pipeline Bomber Has Anti-Government Extremist Ties, Admired Joseph Stack," June 26, 2012, at:

http://www.accessadl.blogspot.com/2012/ ... -anti.html
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby ashlynne39 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:07 am

notorial dissent wrote:
The scary thing, is, as was pointed out, if he had managed to set that pipeline off, Plano would be nothing but a bad memory, and a very deep hole. That much gas going boom that way would not be pretty. We haven't had a really bad gas line explosion in a while, and people tend to forget what happens with them, not nice.


I had no idea what could happen with a gas explosion. Living somewhat close to Plano though and knowing people who live there, I hope the city rethinks having those lines so open and accessible. In fact, I may drive around my area this week and see if there are any like that around me and complain to the city if there are.

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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Burnaby49 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:04 am

I have a friend who has been in the gas business for almost 40 years. Until he retired he worked as a repairman/technician for Terasen, our local gas utility doing underground gas line repairs/installations and emergency line leak repairs. He now has his own business. I showed him the Google Streetview photo of the exposed pipeline and asked him;

1 - If we (British Columbia) have exposed pipe like that and;
2 - What would have happened if the moron had sucessfully breached the pipe with the bomb.

For the first question he said that an installation like that isn't allowed here. Too dangerous to have exposed piping out in the open. This one is particularly dangerous since it is right by a main road where a bus or a semi could wipe the whole thing out. We have exposed above-ground pipes like the one in the picture for checking and testing the line but they are always in secured facilities, either in Terasen patrolled compounds or utility buildings.

Second question, answer is not as much as you'd think. Even if the pipe was broken open and the gas ignited the damage would have been limited to a flare up in the immediate vicinity of the pipe. Might have take out an adjacent house or two but the fire would not have spread underground through the pipe. The local gas utility staff would have shut the gas off from a valve further on down the line. Friend said that a heavy vehicle hitting it (heavy enough to get past the pathetic safety barrier of a bit of welded cast iron pipe) would have done a lot more damage than a small bomb that was not even powerful enough to kill the idiot employing it.

Bottom line is that having exposed pipelines like this just sitting around in public areas is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed (ashlynne39 take note) but a breach through an accident or deliberate destruction, while capable of causing significant damage, would only be of limited local effect.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Doktor Avalanche » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:31 am

Burnaby49 wrote:Second question, answer is not as much as you'd think. Even if the pipe was broken open and the gas ignited the damage would have been limited to a flare up in the immediate vicinity of the pipe. Might have take out an adjacent house or two but the fire would not have spread underground through the pipe.


Meet San Bruno, CA where a natural gas line exploded on September 9, 2010 at 6:11 PM PDT.

First, this is more than "might have taken out an adjacent house or two" - this took out a neighborhood.

Image

This is more than a "limited flare up in the immediate vicinity of the pipe" - this is a few blocks burning.

Image

Again, more than just a house or two:

Image

As you can see, the whole neighborhood is on fire.

Image


The U.S. Geological Survey registered the explosion and resulting shock wave as a magnitude 1.1 earthquake. Eye witnesses reported the initial blast "had a wall of fire more than 1,000 feet high".

The explosion blew a crater 167 feet long, 26 feet wide and 40 feet deep. It destroyed 35 homes outright and rendered 3 more uninhabitable, bringing the total property damage to 38.

8 dead, amazingly enough. I know that's 8 too many but considering the scope of this disaster the fatalities should have been much higher - maybe in the 40s and 50s.

I'm not taking issue with you, Burnaby, you're just reporting what your friend told you and I can't imagine someone working in the natural gas industry for 40 years would downplay the damage a gas line explosion would cause.

In all fairness, this is the result of some corner-cutting PG&E engaged in on top of illegally diverting $100 million for a safety program that would have prevented such a catastrophe. Can you say with certainty that the gas lines in Plano are up to code, nobody skimmed off the safety funds or cut corners?
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Burnaby49 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:26 pm

I was aware of the San Bruno explosion when I wrote my post and had discussed with my friend because of the obvious implications but it's an apples and oranges comparison, like comparing two fully loaded city buses colliding to a collision of a couple of Honda Fits. The Plano pipe seems to be an 8 inch line, maximum 10. The San Bruno pipe was huge, with a 30 inch diameter. The amount of gas going through a pipe is based on the pressure (I don't know what the pressure was in Plano or San Bruno) and the square of the pipe diameter. If it is assumed pressure was the same for both pipes the San Bruno pipe was 14 times larger in volume capacity than the Plano pipe. Also San Bruno was underground and there were reports of leaks for days beforehand indicating the ground around the rupture was well saturated before the explosion resulting in large quantities of already exposed fuel ready to blow. The San Bruno pipe was over a half a century old, worn-out and poorly maintained, and the ruptured segment was comprised of odds and ends welded together. When it blew it took out a 28 foot section in one shot voiding massive volumes of gas underground underneath the houses.

Plano, by comparison is a short segment of exposed pipe with a much smaller diameter. Had a small bomb (say the size Chi could have carried, which appeared to have not even severely injured himself never mind a cast-iron pipe) breached it the rupture would have been quite small and been localized to the exposed piping. Assuming decent maintenance and better quality pipe than San Bruno rupture would not have spread. The quantity of gas released, while significant, would have been trivial compared to San Bruno and there would be no saturated ground effect. When the gas ignited it would have flared upward around the breach and largely dissipated upward into the air rather than upward underground into houses as at San Bruno.

So my opinion still holds. Had Chi breached the Plano pipe with his homemade bomb it could have caused a serious localized problem but not a major event.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby LPC » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:14 pm

CaptainKickback wrote:By that I mean, a quick sudden break of a gas line, followed by a near simultaneous ignition of the gas is probably going to give you a nice jet of flame, but not much boom and destruction.

However, a slow leak, where gas has had time to build up, followed by an ignition is going to give you a San Bruno situation - a huge explosion, fireball, massive boom, and a lot of destruction.

That's been my understanding of gas main explosions, which is that there has to be a build-up of gas mixed with air to produce an explosion. A break in a main that is immediately ignited (such as by an explosion that produces the breach) would produce a big flame, but little or no explosion.
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Re: Ed and Elaine Brown fan arrested trying to blow up gas l

Postby Jozef Bleaux » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Burnaby49 wrote:I was aware of the San Bruno explosion when I wrote my post and had discussed with my friend because of the obvious implications but it's an apples and oranges comparison, like comparing two fully loaded city buses colliding to a collision of a couple of Honda Fits.

So my opinion still holds. Had Chi breached the Plano pipe with his homemade bomb it could have caused a serious localized problem but not a major event.


Maybe so, but had anyone died because of such a "serious localized problem", the Government goes for the death penalty, setting Anson Chi up for a one-way ticket to USP Terre Haute and the needle.


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