Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

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Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:17 pm

The Creation Science Hall of Fame has recently begun its fund-raising campaign for a brick and mortar edifice to their chosen heroes to be built near Ken Ham's Creation Museum and proposed Ark Encounter.

One of the "worthies" of note:

http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/honorable-mention/

#35.

Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953), an American young earth creationist, is considered by many to be one of the foremost authorities on science and the Bible. His amazing ability to communicate complicated scientific concepts in an easy-to-understand format makes this essential information accessible for youth and laypersons, as well as science professors.

His creation seminars’ goal is to convince listeners to reject theories of evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favor of the Genesis creation narrative from the Bible. As of 2012, this Creation Seminar has parts translated via subtitling in 37 languages. Hovind’s views are contradicted by secular scientific journals and some of his ideas have also been criticized by young earth creationists as happens among creation organizations.

Hovind established the Creation Science Evangelism ministry in 1989 speaking extensively on young Earth creationism at private schools, churches, debates, and on radio and television broadcasts.

Since January 2007, Hovind has been serving a ten-year prison sentence after being convicted on 58 federal counts.

Nick Lally, Chairman, Board of Directors, Creation Science Hall of Fame, says that he met Kent Hovind at his Creation Boot Camp in Pensacola, Florida and found him to be a dedicated Creationist and Christian.

Nick believes that Kent is in jail out of principle, and not deceit.

Nominated by Nick Lally.

---------------------------------
---------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:26 pm

I suggested to the Hall that Kent Hovind might not be such a good idea as an honoree, but it appears that the executives of the Hall are determined to defend and induct Kent Hovind into the Hall of Fame.

After a brief exchange, I received the following note this morning from the organizations Secretary/Treasurer:

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Terry A. Hurlbut, Secretary/Treasurer - CSHF
Email: temlakos@...
CC: Joseph Stephen (joestephen@...)
CC: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
Date: Sunday, December 16,2012 08:11:56 -0500

Subject: Re: Creation Science Hall of Fame

Sir:

What you call "tax crimes" was an attempt to invalidate
the tax structure. In America at least, the simplest way
to get standing to invalidate a law as unconstitutional
is to break said law and suffer punishment for said breach.

Kent Hovind gambled that he would find a righteous judge.

He lost.

And his experience bears witness to us all that our entire
national judiciary is willing to accept agreed-upon lies.

A quick Google search under your name reveals your true
motive. Kent and Eric Hovind are young-earth creation
advocates.

Ah, ahem, ahem!
So are we.
You are not.

That would be fine, except that you:

1.

Have never once shown a willingness to look
at the evidence that this earth is young,
not old. (And so is the entire universe, as
an earthly clock would measure it, and so
is our solar system.)

2.

Have shown instead a penchant for argumentum
ad hominem. And also for throwing off on your
opponents in this regard.

But then again, if you're not even willing to look at
Dr. Hovind's arguments with the tax man, then I shouldn't
marvel (see Galatians 1:6) that you won't look at the
evidence that the universe, the solar system, and the
earth are all young.

Evolution is the biggest fraud in the history of science.
In the same vein, the Internal Revenue Code might be the
biggest fraud in the history of law. To accept any law
as valid on no strength other than the mere publication
of a court opinion is no act of critical thinking.

Terry A. Hurlbut
Secretary-Treasurer

-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

I won't burden this venue at this time with the reply I sent or the related earlier correspondence! I will note, however, that my "true motives" were made clear from the beginning of the correspondence. Shame on them!

They are welcome to Kent Hovind as one of their inductees.

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Famspear » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:45 pm

Terry A. Hurlbut wrote:....What you call "tax crimes" was an attempt to invalidate the tax structure. In America at least, the simplest way to get standing to invalidate a law as unconstitutional is to break said law and suffer punishment for said breach.

Kent Hovind gambled that he would find a righteous judge.

He lost.


Baloney. Hovind wasn't looking for a "righteous judge."

He was looking for a way to evade federal taxes. He knew exactly what he was doing when he structured his transactions in an attempt to evade the Treasury reporting requirements. When he made all those deposits for amounts that were under the $10,000 reporting requirement, he wasn't trying to "break said law and suffer punishment for said breach" in some sort of idealistic attempt to test the validity of the law. He was trying to break the law in a way that he hoped would not result in his getting caught.

He gambled on the possibility that he would not get caught.

He lost.

And his [Kent Hovind's] experience bears witness to us all that our entire national judiciary is willing to accept agreed-upon lies.


Mr. Hurlbut, that's baloney too.
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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:10 pm

I can Google too, and I found a rather recently published article authored by Mr. Hurlbut at:

http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com ... -unlawful/

> Income tax on wages unlawful?
>
> By Terry A. Hurlbut
> September 26, 2012

Go to link for article.

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:31 am

I guess I really stirred up a hornet's nest with the Hall of Famers.

I just got this notice from the Chairman of the Board who announces his intentions for induct Kent Hovind (aka Dr. Dino) as soon as possible:

-----------------------------------------------------------

From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
To: xxxx
CC: diatheke2@...
CC: fwepboyd@...
CC: joestephen@...
CC: seeevidence@...
CC: temlakos@gmail.com
Date: Sunday, December 16, 2012 18:02:14 -0500

Subject: Creation Science Hall of Fame

Dear Xxxxxx,

I realize that I informed you that we wouldn't be able
to communicate with you until after Christmas and New
Years Eve.

However, that statement will just have to be revised
since two of the Creation Science Hall of Fame directors
elected to answer you before Christmas.

Thus, I see no need to continue this discussion about
Dr Hovind being listed on the "honorable mention list",
CSHF and the listing of Matthew Fontaine Maury on the
"deceased inductee list", CSHF web site:

http://www.creationsciencehalloffame.org

After reading the amount of emails sent back and forth
between you and my directors, I have come to the following
conclusion:

I personally believe you had no interest in Maury,
but you were totally consumed with Dr Hovind,
which brings me to the conclusion that you were
not initially honest enough to address what was
really on your mind: Dr Hovind.

I also believe that you were fishing for a story for
your web site that would create a controversy....and
you succeeded.

But you did not serve "Truth" for the benefit of all
man kind.

Some might call this extreme pride.

I totally concurred with my directors, Joe Stephen
and Dr Hurlbuts' emails to you.

They were accurate and to the point without under-lying
agendas except to serve and reveal the Truth.

Sometimes we humans must reflect on ourselves and ask
God if "this is the right thing I'm doing"?....and
that could only be answered by the "fruits" one produces.

Xxxxx, have you reflected on your fruits lately?
Hope you like what you see.

Not wanting to end this email on a "negative", I want to
tell you that you really were a blessing to me.

It just goes to show you that only a "Good" could ultimately
come from an "Evil event".

God always prevails.

I have been wrestling with myself far to long on this
subject and you have opened up my eyes and mind to realize
that Dr. Kent Hovind should be inducted into the Creation
Science Hall of Fame ASAP.

I will make the strongest argument possible for the
induction of Dr. Kent Hovind to all of my directors
that he be inducted into the Creation Science Hall
of Fame....and for that, I sincerely thank you.

Nick Lally,
Chairman, Board of Directors,
Creation Science Hall of Fame

Cc:
Dr Willie Dye
Dr Terry A. Hurlbut
Joseph Stephen
Pastor Frederick Boyd

-------------------------------
-------------------------------

Matthew 7:1,2
James 3:1

The greater condemnation for those men who dare to charge me as they have, while being guilty of such as they accuse me and worse, is most certainly deserved.

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Famspear » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:46 am

Terry A. Hurlbut wrote:Evolution is the biggest fraud in the history of science. In the same vein, the Internal Revenue Code might be the biggest fraud in the history of law. To accept any law as valid on no strength other than the mere publication of a court opinion is no act of critical thinking.


Oh, wait! Don't tell me... let me guess!

An act of "critical thinking" would be accepting Terry Hurlbut's view as to the validity of a law? Is that it?

Dear Mr. Hurlbut, wherever you are.....

Were you asleep during that ninth grade civics class?

The "mere publication of a court opinion" on the validity of a law (as you put it), under our legal system, is indeed authoritative on the validity of a law.

I have a feeling that Hurlbut's mental processes on scientific subjects are on the same par as his mental processes regarding our legal system.
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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby AndyK » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:49 am

Proponents of a theocracy need no support for their arguments or statements other than their faith -- and possible references to the appropriate version of the King James Bible.

They also interpret Amendment I to the Constitution of the Untied States to mean that they have the freedom to impose their beliefs on all others
Taxes are the price we pay for a free society and to cover the responsibilities of the evaders

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:51 am

Coincidence?

I report, you decide! 8)

It was earlier reported that Forbes' Peter J. Reilly posted a column on the Jo Hovind U.S. Tax Court case at:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreill ... ed-by-irs/

On page 4 of the readers' comments section there are three recent postings and, since those messages were posted and the Hall of Famers notified of those postings, the Hall of Famers have not been heard from!

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:16 am

"The Creation Science Hall of Fame".Wow -- that's a name up there with "Flat Earth Society Hall of Fame", "Alchemist Hall of Fame", and "Hollow Earth Hall of Fame."
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby grixit » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:46 am

As i pointed out once on talk.origins, true creationists have a serious handicap in court. While normally a lawyer uses the juror picking phase to impose a selective filter on the statistical range of individuals found in the jury pool, the lawyer for a creationist must be content to allow God to intelligently design a perfect jury for them.
I voted for Hillary, and i didn't even get a stupid tshirt!

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby wserra » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:10 pm

More than halfway through one of my long federal criminal trials (this one went just over six months) one day one of the jurors came in with a large box of lengthy religious tracts (~400 pages). He had one each for the judge, the lawyers, the defendants and his fellow jurors. The govt panicked, and tried mightily to convince the judge to kick him off the jury. I fought that (and prevailed). I figured that my client was dead on the evidence, but was even money with God.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby LPC » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:51 pm

Pottapaug1938 wrote:"The Creation Science Hall of Fame".Wow -- that's a name up there with "Flat Earth Society Hall of Fame", "Alchemist Hall of Fame", and "Hollow Earth Hall of Fame."

You've preserved the absurdity, but lost the oxymoron.

It should be "Flat Earth Science Hall of Fame" and "Alchemy Science Hall of Fame."

"Astrology Science Hall of Fame" would also work.
Dan Evans
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(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:54 am

It matters not to me if the Creation Science Hall of Fame retains Matthew Fontaine Maury as an inductee or moves Kent Hovind from "honorable mention" to inductee.

Both men are somewhat of a hobby of mine, so when I saw the fund-raising notice and intentions of the Hall, I thought I would share some of my thoughts with them. That discussion has continued through today and here's an update on the results:

> From: Nick Lally
> Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 13:15:23 -0500
>
> Subject: Info on Mathew Fontaine Maury, from Nick
>
> Dear Directors, CSHF and (Maury Enthusiast),
>
> Not only am I recommending that we keep Matthew
> Fontaine Maury inducted into the CSHF, but I am also
> reiterating my position that we need to Induct Dr. Kent
> Hovind into the CSHF ASAP.
>
> Nick Lally,
> Chairman, Board of Directors,
> Creation Science Hall of Fame

On the Maury issue, for what it's worth, I don't think he met their qualifications for membership, but that's a rather complex issue and folks might have differing opinions on that.

The Hall, however, in its Maury promotion, claims there is a tombstone of Maury at the U.S. Naval Academy.

I don't think so!

Nick has indicated that the Hall is currently standing behind their source for the tombstone claim.

Neat!

However, they have expressed some concern about the prospects that that claim is false and Nick has indicated the Hall will possibly make an announcement on that matter after the first of the year.

Neat!

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:03 pm

UNITED STATES TAX COURT
WASHINGTON, DC 20217

Docket No. 4245-10

Kent Hovind,
Petitioner,

v.

COMMISSIONER OF INTERNAL REVENUE,
Respondent

O R D E R

Upon due consideration of respondent's Status
Report, filed December 12, 2012, and the recitals
therein, and of petitioner's statement in his
Motion To Dismiss Petition for Kent Hovind,
filed November 1, 2011, that he "has no intention
of proceeding in tax court [sic] at any point in
the future", it is

ORDERED

that, on or before January 7, 2013, respondent
shall file a Motion for Entry of Decision.

(Signed) Michael B. Thornton
Chief Judge
Dated. Washington, D.C.
December 17, 2012

SERVED December 19, 2012

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:54 pm

(Nick was provided a copy of latest action by the Court in Hovind's case and responded as follows. The cc's are to his other board members. - Maury Enthusaist!)

From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
To: Xxxxx
CC: diatheke2@...
CC: fwepboyd@...
CC: joseph@...
CC: seeevidence@...
CC: temlakos@...
Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012 08:13:22 -0500

Subject: Re: Kent Hovind

Xxxxxx,

A court, to decide a case, must have two kinds of
jurisdiction:

Subject-matter jurisdiction is the most important.

That means the laws say that this is the court to
hear such cases, and the plaintiff (or "the people")
has standing to bring the case. And standing means:

1. Injury-in-fact,
2. That the defendant caused, and
3. That the court has the power to do something about.

Personal jurisdiction means that the court has the right
to try this particular defendant.

I would imagine that Kent Hovind is trying to make a Supreme
Court case of whether the Tax Court really has personal
jurisdiction over him, or anyone.

Sadly, the only way to argue a thing like that before a
court is to break a nominal law and then try to argue the
law when the authorities hale you into court.

Absent such "haling," you don't have standing.

In the eyes of the courts, as currently staffed, no citizen
has standing to assert a claim that someone is doing something unconstitutional, unless that person has injured the claimant
in some way.

Usually that means: you did something you felt you were at
full liberty to do, and the cops came for you.

Evidently, Xxxxxx, you are one of those people who thinks
"guilty until proved innocent."

Nick Lally,
Chairman, Board of Directors,
Creation Science Hall of Fame

---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby LaVidaRoja » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:11 pm

Mr. Lally - how many Tax Court cases start out with the statement "The Tax Court is a Court of limited jurisdiction."....
Of course, he also appears to not understand that in a Tax Court proceeding, the government is the respondent, not the petitioner....
I have to wonder if Hovind understands the consequences of his dismissal. Oh well, he should in about 120 days, when the RO initiates seizure on everything....
Little boys who tell lies grow up to be weathermen.

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Nick Lally discusses his view of Kent Hovind in the context of "principle" v. "deceit" in his promotion for him on the Creation Science Hall of Fame website at:

http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/honorable-mention/

Kent Hovind is #35 on the list, and Nick's comments can be found there. Otherwise, Nick has most recently responded in that context as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
To: Xxxxxx
CC: diatheke2@...
CC: fwepboyd@...
CC: joseph@...
CC: seeevidence@...
CC: temlakos@...
Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:49:08 -0500

Subject: Re: Kent Hovind

Xxxxxx,

You have indicated that you are a retired IRS agent.

So I got to believe that you would not be informed
knowing the difference between "principle and deceit".

Your training is only in numbers....cold hard numbers
and not in the interpretations of principles laid out
by the US Constitution.

Of course you see Dr. Hovind as being guilty according
to IRS regulations.

Most do.

But there is another side to the story and that is,
"principle".... which will never be recognized by the
IRS nor a cold-hard number guy such as yourself.

I can't argue with you over IRS "regulations" because
I would be wrong.

But I could argue with you over "principle" because
I would then be right.

But then again, you and the IRS don't recognize "principles".

Its no different then arguing over Creation Vs Evolution.

The Evolutionist tell us not to say the number "4"
(principle) and then asks us "how much is 2 and 2?.....
and we are not aloud to say the number, "4" (principle).

Please do check the www.creationsciencehalloffame.org from
time to time to see the changes on the Maury induction page
and the induction of our latest creationist which should
be uploaded within a week or two.

"Merry Christmas"....oops....forgot.
I am not allowed to say that.

Nick Lally,
Chairman, Board of Directors,
Creation Science Hall of Fame

--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:20 pm

To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
From: Xxxxxx
CC: diatheke2@...
CC: fwepboyd@...
CC: joseph@...
CC: seeevidence@...
CC: temlakos@...
Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012

Subject: Re: Kent Hovind

Nick,

It's not about me or IRS regulations, but your framing
of the matter reflects further upon your own "deceit",
evasions, ignorance (feigned or real), and hypocrisy
regarding these important, public issues.

Let me know if you decide to get serious about considering
these matters further.

Also, I'm still looking for you or your surrogates to
make their appearance at Forbes or Quatloos (references
previously provided) and state your case publicly in those
venues and in response to the comments already posted there
on these matters.

Come out, come clean, or not!

Sincerely,
Xxxxx Xxxx

--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby Paths of the Sea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:09 pm

(Terry is one of the board members of the Hall of Fame.)

From: Terry A. Hurlbut (temlakos@...)
To: XXXX
CC: creationfacts@...
CC: datheke2@...
CC: fwepboyd@...
CC: joseph@...
CC: seeevidence@...
Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012 13:55:54 -0500

Subject: Re: Kent Hovind

Just a minute, neighbor.

Did you say that you were a retired agent
of the IRS?

Let me remind you, then, of what your
predecessor Zacchaeus said in his apology
to Jesus Christ:

"I will give half I own in charity. And if
I have 'shown the fig' on anyone, I will pay
him back four times as much!"

The Greek verb, rendered "to defraud", is
sycophantein, or literally, "to show the fig."
It goes back to a practice by corrupt customs
agents in ancient Corinth, charged with enforcing
a ban on the export of figs. They would plant figs
on people and then shake them down for an extra
customs duty they did not actually owe. The Greeks
coined a word for that: sycophanteo, meaning "I
show the fig." And it means more than merely to
defraud. It means to trump up evidence.

Now whether you agree with him or not, Kent Hovind
charges that the IRS has been "showing the fig" on
the American people since its inception. And I am
not satisfied that his arguments have gotten the
hearing they deserved.

Furthermore, I consider your loyalty to your former
agency misplaced. I put it to you that your
colleagues in that agency received training in how
to "show the fig."

I recall that Commissioner Donald Alexander once
had to give an account of his agency's activities
to Congress. "This is a democracy, Mr. Alexander,
need I remind you?" cried an outraged Congressman.
Mr. Alexander said:

"I think you and I understand the realities of this
modern world. The fact of the matter is that we have
so few agents, and so little time, that the only way
to keep the people in line, the only way to keep them
honest and paying their taxes is to make them afraid."

Sir, when you left the IRS, you ought to have repented
of the mission of the IRS.

A man cannot serve two masters.

Usually that means "one cannot serve God and the
'god' of money."

But it can also mean, "one cannot serve God and
government both."

I will leave you with this quote from Thomas Jefferson:

"To secure [the inalienable] rights [of men],
governments are instituted among men, deriving their
just powers from the consent of the governed. And
whenever any government becomes destructive of these
ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish
it, and to institute a new government..."

Terry A. Hurlbut

-------------------------------
-------------------------------

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Re: Creation Science (& Tax Cheaters) Hall of Fame!

Postby wserra » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:41 pm

These guys are somewhat confused. 'Course, that's not exactly a newsflash.

I would imagine that Kent Hovind is trying to make a Supreme Court case of whether the Tax Court really has personal jurisdiction over him, or anyone.


If Hovind has a case in Tax Court, it is of course because he brought it. It's a little hard to see how Tax Court doesn't have personal jurisdiction over someone who files a case there.

Sadly, the only way to argue a thing like that before a court is to break a nominal law and then try to argue the law when the authorities hale you into court.


If Hovind has a case in Tax Court, he haled the authorities there, not vice versa.

Absent such "haling," you don't have standing.


Gibberish from someone who has no idea what "standing" is.

Your training is only in numbers....cold hard numbers and not in the interpretations of principles laid out by the US Constitution


My training is "in the interpretations of principles laid out by the US Constitution". Also, by the way, in math, physics and chemistry. Plenty to know that "creation science" is (as Dan says) an oxymoron. And it's from Princeton and Georgetown, not from "Patriot University" (like Hovind).

'shown the fig' ... "to show the fig" ... "the export of figs" ... "plant figs" ... "I show the fig" ... "showing the fig" ... "show the fig."


Perhaps these guys would like to talk about law instead of figs. Likely not, though.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume


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