Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

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grixit
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby grixit » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:57 am

It seems to me that so much of his personality is bound up in his delusions that a stiff dose of thorazine would merely turn him from a paranoid to a catatonic.
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notorial dissent
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:00 pm

grixit wrote:It seems to me that so much of his personality is bound up in his delusions that a stiff dose of thorazine would merely turn him from a paranoid to a catatonic.

Pretty much. In all honesty, I'm not sure there is any medication that he could be given that would accomplish anything, except possibly give him a new status as an unresponsive house plant. He isn't, at least as near as I can see, psychotic, and while it is possible he is schizophrenic, I don't think it is likely, so no magic happy juice for him.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Lambkin » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:19 pm

Well I won't be surprised if it fails, but from what I have read, people with delusional disorders are restored to competency to stand trial with some regularity, using anti-psychotic medications. The odds of success for his type of disorder are better than for schizophrenia, for example. Has PAM ever been treated? I have no idea. If not then I don't see how anyone can be very certain about what will happen. The depth of his delusions doesn't seem exceptional to me; people with similar disorders show up regularly in the courts. If he ends up being tried and incarcerated, at least that will help keep him on the meds.

Here's one relevant study you might enjoy: http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/1/47.full.pdf

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby fortinbras » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:07 pm

Let us assume that PAM eventually is regarded as competent to stand trial (which is probable, although I can't guess when - probably within 6 months). If he opens his mouth he will surely alienate the jury and the judge and be assured of going back to an institution. Not much of a change except I think the food is better in prison.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:10 pm

notorial dissent wrote:True, as far as I know, and believe, he has never been in this kind of situation before.
... and since he is convinced that there is nothing wrong with him, no amount of one on one is going to accomplish anything either. The significant thing the doctor got right is that he is living in a delusiary state that he has no reason or want to come out of.


There are lots of people functioning in society today who were successfully treated for having delusions of one form or another. In some degree its a matter of motivation and one of the most powerful motivations in humans is personal freedom. Being able to make your own decisions about your daily existence ranks right up there, too. Add a layer of medications and he may learn to shut up and watch the show as a spectator.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Paths of the Sea » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:50 pm

Mitch was introduced to the Forbes audience in a readers' comment reference following today's article from Peter J. Reilly:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreill ... tured-irs/

The link in the readers' comment was to:

http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/tekgnosis/ ... ndf-2.html

Interesting!
Maybe it all ties together.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Paths of the Sea » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:11 pm

Another promoter ("CelebrityPaul), or the same one with a different ID, has made an appearance on Forbes to advertise Mitch/Paul in response to another article from Peter.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreill ... then-what/

One of the promotions in the readers' comments section of that article is to an October 2013 published interview with Mitch/Paul:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0CvvVH-yk

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby fortinbras » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:32 pm

So PAM is involved with the birfer crusade of Crazy Joe Arpaio. Always a sign of sanity and good sense.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:07 am

Gee, with legal advice and strategy from PAM I just can't imagine why Shurf Joe hasn't started arresting people and holding those citizen grand juries he was contemplating? :sarcasmon:
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby wserra » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:49 pm

FMC Springfield - the institution in which Modeleski is currently undergoing observation to determine whether he will become competent to stand trial - wishes to forcibly medicate him. The only way I learned of this was from the order which Judge Freudenthal signed yesterday. The order resulted from the sealed applications of Mitch's stand-by counsel for a hearing and a copy of Mitch's medical records from Springfield. While Judge Freudenthal determined that she had no jurisdiction to decide these issues, her order confirms that Springfield feels it necessary figuratively to tie him down and shoot him up.

The scenario presents legal issues about which I've written before. One way or the other, the Modeleski saga gets increasingly pathetic.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:21 pm

As I've written before, Mitch is living in an unregistered area code, and really isn't connected to reality, and in my estimation, hasn't been for a good long time. If he runs true to course, his condition has considerably worsened over the past few years as he has withdrawn further and the psychosis has deepened. I said early on that sitting him in group sessions singing kumbayah was not going to make him any less crazy than he was to start with, and the fact that they are now talking about medication means they have finally recognized it for what it is, and contrary to popular fantasy drugs are not the cure for what ails Mitch, and I agree with WES, the idea of having to drug him to get him to trial is really really disturbing, aside from the fact that it just highlights that he wasn't competent when he was charged.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby fortinbras » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:37 am

The court order to forcibly medicate Modeleski pretty clearly demonstrates that he's too mentally effed to stand trial - if he does go to trial while heavily medicated, the appeal vistas open wide - and strongly hint that he's got a mental alibi for the criminal charge itself. On the other hand, it creates the likelihood that, one way or another, he's going to be locked away for a significant amount of time for a nonviolent offense. In fact, in a psych hospital he will have fewer legal protections than if he were in prison. Although he may get free in less than 2 years, there is a possibility that heavy-duty treatment will make him a tad less troublesome.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:15 am

If they want to/have to medicate him to get him to trial, then he wouldn't/couldn't have been mentally/legally responsible at the time the alleged crimes were committed. Which is what I've been saying all along.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:09 am

notorial dissent wrote:If they want to/have to medicate him to get him to trial, then he wouldn't/couldn't have been mentally/legally responsible at the time the alleged crimes were committed. Which is what I've been saying all along.


Actually, no. If that were true, it would be a reliable defense strategy in any number of cases.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Dr. Caligari » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:58 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
notorial dissent wrote:If they want to/have to medicate him to get him to trial, then he wouldn't/couldn't have been mentally/legally responsible at the time the alleged crimes were committed. Which is what I've been saying all along.


Actually, no. If that were true, it would be a reliable defense strategy in any number of cases.


Competence to stand trial and the insanity defense overlap to some extent, especially in practical terms, but are, at least conceptually, very different, in two ways: (1) competence to stand trial is determined as of today, while insanity refers to the defendant's mental state at the time of the crime, and (2) to be competent to stand trial, the test is whether the defendant understands that he is on trial for a crime and can assist his lawyer in his defense, while the test for sanity is whether the defendant knew what he was doing and knew it was wrong. What they have in common is that someone can be, in common parlance, bat$hit crazy, but still be legally sane and competent to stand trial.
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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:27 am

Yes, Dr Caligari, the point is what does the defendant understand, and I think the problem is that the defendant does not understand that he is living in an unregistered reality, that what he takes for fact and reality is anything but, any more than medicating him will make him understand any better or be any more capable of helping with his defense let alone understand why he should be putting on a defense, since his altered reality does not perceive the same things as everyone else.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby fortinbras » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:12 pm

In any case, Modeleski's current state of affairs confirms our opinion that his elevator is not stopping on all floors.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby . » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:46 pm

Huh. Probably not how he envisioned the dénouement of supremelaw.org.

A years-long battle about competence, punctuated by uncooperativeness and firing of counsel.

If ever found to be competent, drugged-up or not, a trial about whether he's not guilty due to insanity, generally a losing proposition although maybe not in this case. Also surely punctuated by more uncooperativeness and firing of counsel.

Any way you slice it, many more years in federal lock-up, whether psychiatric or as a convict.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby notorial dissent » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:00 pm

I just can't imagine any of this is going well with or for PAM, not with his ego and fantasy world.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Mitch Modeleski aka Paul Andrew Mitchell

Postby Judge Roy Bean » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:07 pm

If they don't at least try to medicate him as a part of a therapeutic regimen that might bring him into a state of greater understanding of reality, they aren't meeting their professional obligation.

They won't know until they try and as I mentioned before, there are delusional people who function pretty well as long as they're on their meds. I know this because I knew a younger man who was able to resume a "normal" life after some episodes of odd and dangerous behavior (it involved starting fires to cleanse various pieces of ground of evil spirits).

If it does work for Mitch he may come to understand the risks he faces without continuing treatment. That doesn't mean he will suddenly abandon his legal mythology or that he can mount a sound defense on his own, just that he may be in a condition under which he can understand that what is happening to him is real and the legal system is not going to function as he demands.
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