Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

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The_Nidhogg
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Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Hello Quatloosians!

I've been lurking here for the past 6 months and have been both amused, angered and driven almost to despair over the tales of freeman folly discussed. After hearing two drunks in Edinburgh argue over the duties of the police and then observing one of the local alcoholics screaming that he was a natural man outside of Aberdeen sheriff court I thought it was time to have a look at the state of OPCA activity in sunny Scotland.

What follows is the result of my initial surface skim. I am yet to probe the depths of these tartan terrors and have not yet identified a primary guru (though I have a few suspects!). In lieu of an obvious native chief, the work of John Harris seems to be of some influence albeit with an alcoho*ahem* uniquely Scottish slant.

Much like the real Scottish legal system is a marriage of continental Civil law and English Common law systems, the pseudo law the wee free men espouse is a hybrid mushing together of various nonsense legal “theories” from both travelling Fmotl and Sovereign Citizen BAR paranoia.

These Scottish Sovereigns on the Land (their name not mine) believe that the Scottish Legal system is in fact run by a secret society. As both the judiciary and the advocates and solicitors are all members they are of course loyal to the society first and foremost and then to the court, then to their evil cultist brothers and then to their clients. Now one might be fooled into thinking that the foul parasites would be loyal to the wallets of their clients, but, as our freeeeeeemen proudly remind us the whole point of the justice system is to remove wealth from the public.

The proof? An early Menardian style wordplay worthy of Mcgonagall: “Justice- Just us-just them- not you!......and remember you are Scottish and free, not a slave”. Truly inspiring stuff there. Makes you want to pick up your broadsword, paint yourself blue and behead an englishman! Good stuff.

And the name of this Secrect Cabal? Are you ready? Show me the handshake? Good. Now the password? Excellent. The moon doth rise by shadow of tuesday. Here you go then:

The name of this Secret Society is... The Law Society! What do you mean it's not secret? Shill.

Fitting with our nationalistic theme here is a youtoob of a Billy Connelly impersonater giving the low down on ssotl though I have paraphrased most of it above. Still he's not a bad impersonater and is probably worth watching for the novelty if nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQX3HKyBUYc#t=141


The SSotl have a facebook page here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Scottish ... 4357576476

a website here:http://scottishsovereignsontheland.ning.com/

utoobs here: https://www.youtube.com/user/FreemanScotland2

A cursory glance reveals the group subscribes to strawman theory, all courts as employer courts for employees of the state, all law is contract (Nevermind the contradiction.), travelling vs driving, inalienable free right to travel(drive) without id/ licence. Also some version of A4v though I haven't looked into this in detail yet.

As is common with uk freeman types they seem to focus on driving without a licence and trying to avoid tv licence fees. Their forums while better organised than WFS or Ickes \(and to their credit having some semblance of a community to them with rt chat etc) seem to be struggling a little- one poster has been trying to establish his own freedom valley (strath, glen?) for the past few months (years) but has been ignored by the other posters. :violin:

Naturally the forum is awash with conspiracy theories. Though no lizards which is disappointing.
They do have a link to a site from 1999 on Brehon law, which I haven't read through yet though will try and get round to reading and then debunking eventually!

That'll do for a first post, but I intend to cover in my next entries: the personalities of the SSotl, the Edinburgh driving war and in view of the imminent Independence referendum the two resulatant SSotl discussion; 1. how is the referendum possible, 2. The SSotL constitution (yes, they have one!).

Anyway that's far enough down the rabbit hole for now.

yours,

The Nidhogg
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by bmxninja357 »

you might like this, or not. either way, here it is.

http://www.vice.com/read/these-scottish ... he-law-707

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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Thats them!

Thanks for the link :) a nice wee article there!
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by Jeffrey »

I think we've long theorized that the natural place for FMOTL theories to migrate to are places like Scotland and Ireland that have some level of cultural isolation so the theories are new to them and they aren't aware of the failures.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by grixit »

There's probably a fitting Robert Burns quote for these folks.

But i'll go with something a bit more recent:

I been scratched 'n' taxed 'n' finally axed
Three cheers for the Lesser Evil!

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 4
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Just a quick comment, Nidhogg - I am very much looking forward to learning more about the Scottish branch of the OPCA phenomenon - and, of course, welcome to Quatloos!

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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

@grixit A burns lyric for the ssotl? How about “fir all that' an all that,
Strawman's a man fir aw that,”

@Hilfkreuzer Mowe (sp?) thank you very much for your welcome. I very much enjoy reading your updates on Canadian escapades. Hope you enjoy reading about my darling countrymen although the more I read the more I suspect they are rather more menard than clifford when it comes to action.

I intend to keep general upadtes on the SSotl in this thread and will open up threads on specific individuals when I have enough info on them to be worth sharing. As an aside I believe I have identified the guru and will be posting his delightful thoughts soon.

So having dug a little through the forums of the ssotl I have made a surprising discovery: I have found examples of both SSoTL criticising selfish behaviour and offering something that is dangerously close to actual advice on dealing with companies seeking diligence! I Know! Rest assured however there was ofc a nutter ready to write multiple paragraphs defending his right to litter with ..well I'll show you in a moment. And while the individuals seeking to prevent arrestment of funds were pointed to the correct forms they were also told to write alleged debtor and to just claim no contract and other rubbish.

Nonetheless this glimmer of common sense among the freemanary is interesting in that any notion of the individual owing a duty to society is rarely encountered in North American sovs/fmotl. I do wonder if the more socialist culture over here is somehow to blame. Now as a disclaimer I myself am no socialist and indeed have no strong political views either way: I'm a student more concerned with get
n quite validly be claimed are xenophobic small mindedness and a real victim culture also creates a sense of civic duty that perhaps is less prevalent in more individualistic societies.

The essential contradiction between wider duty to ones neighbours and freeman leeching is naturally hilarious, and leads to some note worthy exchanges here is an excerpt of my favourite so far where a leechy freeman wanting out of a fine for dropping a cigarette in public drops by to ask for an easy get out. Now to begin with we get some delightful word games about it being a charge not a fine and therefore not payable :S and of course no contract anyway. :S then this:
Permalink Reply by quaere verum on April 6, 2014 at 3:24pm
quaere verum  :Why are you throwing away fag ends anyway? You are littering our country. You are dirtying the streets we all have to walk on. Stop moaning and do not drop litter in my country. I want to live in a clean and litter free country. Have you looked at the state of the streets lately, we are walking on a disgusting carpet of fag ends, chewing gum and spittle. Stop littering the streets. I have no sympathy.


The slower ssotl ignore this in favour of more word games until 'Freeman Stephen' a classic dunning kruger ssotl steps up prompting this exchange:

[/quote]
Freeman Stephen Excuse me but these streets used to be my streets as well and my grandparents were dropping the so called litter of cigarette douts on them long before you were born. What gives you the right to demand money from people for dropping cigarette douts on their OWN streets? You may not like it but that's no excuse for a legalised extortion racket. Can we demand money from you because we dont like your shoes using OUR streets - so long as we can get the local authorities to threaten violence on our behalf, it seems by your standards its perfectly moral for us to do so. I hope a fox does a shit on your doorstep and you run off to your violent enforcers complaining about dogshit going where its always gone. You dont even realise how absurd yoube become on all your political correctness because the most dangerous strert gangs in the world are patting you on the head and saying "good citizen".

These are not our laws. If it were possible for we the people to chop and change the laws as your violence threatening masters do, I think the least of our concerns would be a ban on biodegradeable cigarette douts which some people find aesthetically displeasing. I find the exercise of free speech by your kind aestheticilally displeasing but Im not calling on government violence to have you shut up. Its a harsh wake up call Im giving you but you really need to rethink your support for state violence, especially over a cigarette dout.
quaere verum  I never once propagated state violence, or fines against littering.  I am trying to get into peoples heads that this is our land and we have to look after it.  We are a society and have to act as such. We cannot go around dropping litter whenever we feel it. To use the old adage "wid ye dae that in yer ane hoose". These streets are our house, we are all together as a people, as a nation, as a society and we should look after each others well being and not shit on each others doorsteps.
 
Talking of doorsteps, I would not bother in the least if a Fox shit on my doorstep. They are animals and do not have the powers of reason , they do as nature sets them to do. I am delighted that the Foxes are alive and have freedom to do this, as I said, without reasoning.  I bet they do not shit in their own dens.
Freman Stephen Your far departed from nature. Its essential for foxs to shit around their dens to mark off territory and let other foxes know their whereabouts. Its the same for dogs when they aren't being carried about in a pooch pouch as a fashion statement. Far above the dogs, far above even us, theres a simbiance which exists between shit and the soil and the things that grow in the soil that we eat. Its natural that dogshit goes where nature intends it and its a manmade power trip to divert the course of nature for the sake of some contemporary aesthetic value - and Ill bet you thought it was about the poor children who might go blind by rubbing shit on their eyes. Its always about the children - the best emotional argument to propagandise any new utopian vision.

As for littering in my own house, you ought to see it. Theres a corner dedicated to chucking plastic wrappers between cleanups but Im not advocating people just fling their non degrading stuff all over the streets making it an impossible tax to clean up. Cigarette douts were never counted as litter until the anti-smoker politics started. Have a look at a photo of glasgow just 20 years ago. Do you think the responsable smokers threw their cigarette ends into bins containing combustable waste?

No they threw them on the pavement and stubbed them out with their shoes where the douts got rained on and flushed into the sewers where they decomposed as all plant matter will.

To call this littering is like your nevada desert turtle an excuse to impose political policy by the threat of violence. Same if you smoke in a pub. They tried non smoking pubs and people simply didn't want to use them enough - this didn't stop the state using its monopoly on violence to forcibly get the people to do the reverse of what they wanted.

Of course you didn't see the legions of police with truncheons, tazers and guns ready to attack any citizen slave who dared to disobey their government masters. You were too busy eating the steak you bought in a package at the supermarket perhaps wondering at primitive people who prefer instead to eat dead animal carcasses.

If you think your support for fines is not the advocation of state violence, you cannot see the wood for the trees. Every order, rule, regulation, mandate, ordinance, act and bylaw is a threat against every human being in this country. The threat isn't a punch on the nose but the threat ultimately of death, so this kind of power ought never to be abused by those who seek a materially pleasant appearing environment at the expense of a spiritually bankrupt society. Its not like cigarette douts or dogshit have the potential to cause a deadly sanitation crisis which would justify the threat of death that every statute makes.

Wasn't the death penalty abolished decades ago? Only as a direct punishment but indirectly lets consider the introduction of a new statute - " anyone wearing leather shoes in glasgow must saw their legs off".

Deliberately distasteful I know. Your guaranteed to find it an offensive "law" because it affects you, unlike smokers or dog keepers. So your walking down the street with leather shoes and your caught on cctv.A letter comes through the door asking for evidence that you've sawn your legs. After you reply that you haven't, they srnd you a fine for not sawing your legs off. You refuse to pay the fine. They call you for one of those "hearings" where they dont hear anything you have to say unless its "Ill pay".

Either you go or you dont, but either way, Its your streets, its your shoes and its your legs. You refuse to pay a fine under such an offensive law. They come to incarcerate you under this offensive law. You refuse to just surrender under this offensive law. They resort to violence to force you into incarceration under this offensive law. You use all means necessary to defend yourself from their initiation of force under this offensive law. If non lethal force cannot prevail against you, they will resort to deadly force and they will get a pat on the head for it after they put a bullet through your head for daring to defend yourself from the political violence of the establishment.

Every statute is a death threat and though you may see the "saw your legs off" statute as ridiculous, at least you now see the initiatory violence inherent in the system which sells itself to everyone a packaged steak almost in denial of the fact that its a dead animal carcass.

Government is sn extremely evil thing but so too are things like rape and murder and robbery and theft. When state violence is being threatened against people minding their own business harming no ones rights, its clear that the agenda is not law but politics hidden within the statutes that the morally ignorant call the law.
Full thread:http://scottishsovereignsontheland.ning ... ncil-fines


Classic sov rant. Love it. 10/10.

but in all seriousness I do find it intriguing that there are some few among the ssotl with a modicum of common sense albeit with a complete lack of understanding of law.

Mind you I did find this awesome thread, its still in its infancy but seeing as most threads on ssotl get no responses theres always a chance that the towering intellect of freeman stephen won't ruin it:
Posted by Brian on June 28, 2014 at 10:30am in Articles on all aspects of Law for deCONstruction
Send Message   View Discussions
Was wondering if anyone could help me out... Does the traveling/driving actualy hold up in court? Getting dragged into court for driving otherwise in accordance with licence for not displaying L plates while a friend was teaching me to drive...
Views: 35
Reply by Ben<NBR> on June 29, 2014 at 8:35pm
No it doesn't please don't use anything like in court...Normally you get warning first what happened during the stop for you to end up in court

http://scottishsovereignsontheland.ning ... ng-licence

Amazing eh! Hope springs eternal! Also nestled among the mountain of woo in their 'research materials' page is a link to a site offering a basic introduction to real law! English law admittedly but still! Its something! As well as a sight from a solicitors firm explaining how diligence works and offering real basic advice. We will return to see the extent some in this movement choose to twist this simple advice later :P

So then to summarise this expedition through wonderland: some of the ssotl are slightly less insane than their fmotl/sc brethren probably due to a more socialist culture however that said the vast majority of posts are ppl wanting to get out of fines. The victim mentality that marrs the national character seems to fuel them as much as anything else, however the Them is not the Tories but the Law Society (and the Banks, ofc its always the Banks). They are also into word games though not yet much latin sadly. Though there is a cracker of a canon = common= pope rulez the world thru the bankz theory we might eventually get round too. Not sure how much actual support that one has yet.

Apologies for the lack of contrasting fake ssotl law with real cases/statutes, that will come I promise, but is going to take a bit more time thought than these quick looks at the ssotl.

Apologies for the numerous spelling/grammer formatting errors. In my defense I am chronically lazy (Free Student on The Keyboard) fingers crossed the quote boxes worked :P

next update will probably include details of the unpleasantly petty Edinburgh Parking War and pictures of parking tickets with nonsense written over in red ink :) yay! A4v! Yay! No contract!

That'll do for now,

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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by notorial dissent »

Nidhogg, a belated welcome to Quatloos. Your tales have been fascinating to read. I think you have indeed identified a new subspecies.

I find it fascinating/bemusing/bewildering that the SSOTL are busy waxing wroth over the spitting in the streets and littering laws as much as anything else.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Thank you for the welcome :).

The vast majority of posts on ssotl are people asking for help dealing with not having paid tv licence fees or traffic fines. These are largely ignored getting maybe 1 or two replies, perhaps not surprising considering despite claiming a membership of 4000 people i'd estimate a more accurate number as 50-100 active members.

There is a more lively thread on dilligence and arrestment that i will return too.

the livechat seems to be where most of the day to day discussion is and it is largely conspiracy mongering and discussion of the upcoming referendum and the resultant confusion- "how can scotland become sovereign with a yes vote if I am already sovereign". There is also discussion of constitutional issues however to be fair this is a nightmarishly obscure and complicated part of Scots law with politicians and demagouges throwing out all sorts of claims for at least a century, probably far longer. I will try and deal with it soon aswell, but like I said its complicated and obscure. I am at the end of the day only a student!

If you enjoy weird pettyness the tit for tat over driving in edinburgh should amuse at least a little. I'm waiting for the edinburgh festival though- the cities population booms and the already fairly irritable locals get very grouchy! More fuel for the fire!
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by morrand »

The_Nidhogg wrote:
Freman Stephen Your far departed from nature. ...

To call this littering is like your nevada desert turtle an excuse to impose political policy by the threat of violence. Same if you smoke in a pub. They tried non smoking pubs and people simply didn't want to use them enough - this didn't stop the state using its monopoly on violence to forcibly get the people to do the reverse of what they wanted.
Huh. Interesting place to see that reference.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Freeman Stephen is a hardcore nut- rants about chemtrails, illuminati, UN agenda's etc etc
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by Jeffrey »

morrand wrote:
Huh. Interesting place to see that reference.
IS it?

They get their sovereign and conspiracy theories from American sources, why wouldn't they similarly share the "desert tortoise" meme as well.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Just thought I'd post a quick update in regards to today's referendum.

All across Scotland the level of engagement with the debate has been amazing- everywhere you go people are discussing it and despite what the Press has made out almost all of the discussion has been earnest and calm. Regardless of the result tomorrow I'll be happy knowing that the nation took an interest in politics when it mattered. As a Northern Irish lecturer of mine told our class on Tuesday "vote which ever way your conscience permits, but see and VOTE!". with a 97% registration and half the votes cast by 10am the country took this seriously.

I was disgusted to find out that the several of the ssotl had not bothered to vote including their 2 'big men' who are largely responsible for perpetuating the movement in Scotland.

Their reasons given are tripe- no contract etc. I suspect they are not registered and were too lazy to do so in time.

The Scottish Sovereigns on the Land were given a chance to influence the fundamental nature of their nation and they did nothing.

disgusting.

The Nidhogg
Last edited by The_Nidhogg on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by JamesVincent »

I was gonna post and ask what happened with the vote. Answers tomorrow?
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

answers due about 2am BST (4hours from now for those elsewhere) but I'm not staying up- not even for the ssotls reactions! I have uni tomorrow morning :)
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by Arthur Rubin »

It was reported that No got 55.3% of the vote, with a voter turnout of 84.59%.
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by PeanutGallery »

Of course in the Sovereignverse "No" winning is purely down to "Yes" being the victim of blatant vote rigging and election fraud by the nefarious Powers That Be.

Of course this should be a moot point because a true Sov wouldn't recognise any form of authority beyond their own, I mean that is what they are told to believe right?
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by The_Nidhogg »

Got it in 1 Mr Peanut. "they widnae let us vote if ther wiz onae chance ae change!"

The fact that the referendum has even with the 'No' outcome forced constitutional change has completely passed them by. :brickwall:
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Re: Scottish Sovereigns "ye cannae tak oor freeeeedddooomm"

Post by notorial dissent »

That, along with everything else, since they haven't a clue as to what is really going on around them.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.