Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages today

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Hilfskreuzer Möwe
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Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages today

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

When Irish eyes are smiling,
that’s because they have no loans,
mortgages or foreclosures,
on their businesses and homes.
When Irish hearts are happy,
its to banksters pure dismay,
And when Irish eyes are smiling,
yep they never have to pay.

Or not.

Glen Foster and his sib Stuart Foster are the next Irish folk who don’t like paying their mortgages. They're from Northern Ireland. Though to be entirely fair the Fosters are a bit more sensible than many, as they did agree to continue their payments while the High Court of Justice in Northern Ireland considered their whole bunch of claims.
This is a short judgment. Justice Horner is clearly a little baffled by what he is hearing, so I’ll do a quick run-down and explanation. First, the Fosters argued there was no consideration in the loan:
[5] The appellants claim that there has been a failure to comply with contract law because there is no consideration. The appellants signed a mortgage deed. No consideration is required for a deed: see Morley v Boothby (1825) 3 Bing 107, 112-2.

[6] In any event there was consideration provided by the bank, namely £198,000, which the appellants used to purchase the Property. The appellants’ determination to label the consideration a “currency exchange” does not improve their position, even if it is misguided. On any analysis the bank gave the appellants consideration and allowed them to purchase the Property. That consideration was secured on the Property as a condition of the loan. The appellants are obliged to repay the consideration pursuant to the terms and conditions of the mortgage deed. To date they have refused to do so and are in breach of the terms of the mortgage. Accordingly the bank is entitled to enforce the terms and conditions under which they provided the consideration to the appellants.
I suspect this is a variation on the “banks don’t lend money, they make it” argument. Then the Brothers Foster argue the bank did not provide “full disclosure”, but the Fosters didn’t have any evidence that the bank had concealed anything: para. 7.

Next is what I suspect is a foisted unilateral agreement that was not rebutted by the bank, so the Fosters won (para. 8):
The appellants rely on their affidavit which they claim has not been rebutted by the bank. In that affidavit they assert that the bank has acted in the role of trustee and as a collection agent on behalf of the creditors. This allegation is not made out. No evidence has been adduced that would allow the court to reach such a conclusion. The bank does not have to respond to assertions which remain unsubstantiated allegations.
So much for that. Then we have the ol’ securitization of the mortgage argument (para. 9):
… It is asserted by the appellants that this loan has been converted into stock and it is no longer a loan. There is not a shred of evidence to support such a claim. It is an unparticularised allegation. Accordingly, I dismiss it.
The Brothers have an argument that seems to indicate the bank did not properly document the loan, following the “Banker’s Book Evidence Acts”, but that has been superceded by new rules of evidence and in any case Justice Horner would admit the bank records as hearsay: para. 10. They Brothers cited law that didn’t even apply to Northern Ireland: para. 12.

But at last comes that ol’ razzle-dazzle … the dancing, credit-spewing Strawmen (para 9)!
The appellants also sought to argue that they were both the creditors and the debtors. They claimed that this was a debt due by SF and GF. But they claimed that Greg and Stuart of the family Foster were creditors. They sought to highlight the different legal personalities that existed. They claimed that on the one hand there were SF and GF who were men and Stuart and Greg Foster who were legal persons.


Apparently this was a revelation to Justice Horner:
I am afraid that I was unable to follow their novel proposition for which no legal authority was offered. But in any event it failed to deal with the undisputed fact that the appellants received £198,000 by way of consideration to buy the Property, that they would have been unable to buy the Property without that loan, that the loan was charged on that Property and that they in whatever capacity have failed to abide by the terms and conditions upon which the loan was made and secured on the Property.
In brief, the court is baffled but these polite men who were so utterly out to lunch, with such a variety of ‘novel’ legal(ish) concepts (para 13):
The appellants made their submissions politely and articulately. However, there is no legal or factual basis for them. They have reached an agreement with the bank and it is difficult to understand why the appellants in those circumstances decided to spend hard earned money running an appeal without any obvious merit. This is a difficult area of the law and the appellants have been unable to grasp some legal principles which are fundamental to the law of property. For whatever reason they have decided to make a root and branch attack on the law of mortgages which, on reflection, they may feel was ill-advised. It is an approach which will have adverse financial consequences regardless of the appellants’ motives as the bank will no doubt seek to recover the costs of the appeal. The bank will be able to do so under the terms of the mortgage. In any event, I would have made an order, if asked, for the appellants to pay the costs of the bank.
Northern Ireland? Meet the Freemen-on-the-Land!

I have this hunch that we may soon see yet another jurisdiction shortly discovering and deploying that general-purpose mallet otherwise known as Meads v. Meads

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grixit
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Re: Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages to

Post by grixit »

I think it is time to create a "British Isles" category.
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Fmotlgroupie
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Re: Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages to

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

grixit wrote:I think it is time to create a "British Isles" category.
But then you get into nomenclature issues ("British isles" isn't a popular term in Ireland, but I'm not sure what else to use, or if a replacement wouldn't sound bizarre to British (or North American) ears).

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Re: Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages to

Post by Arthur Rubin »

Fmotlgroupie wrote:
grixit wrote:I think it is time to create a "British Isles" category.
But then you get into nomenclature issues ("British isles" isn't a popular term in Ireland, but I'm not sure what else to use, or if a replacement wouldn't sound bizarre to British (or North American) ears).
Those funny islands NW of Europe?
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The_Nidhogg
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Re: Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages to

Post by The_Nidhogg »

here here!

Surely we can have a "damp Islands section" :mrgreen:

or "UK and Ireland" would be ok too.
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Re: Northern Ireland: Greg & Stuart Foster - no mortgages to

Post by Burnaby49 »

Have one section for the United Kingdom which includes Northern Ireland and another for the Republic of Ireland.
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