UK DD clawbacks and Simon Goldberg

[PeanutGallery]

I would also suggest that the size of the amount is just large enough for the police to want to take an interest. It seems like a serious attempt at fraud. After all the shopkeeper who was jailed, which was pointed out earlier in this thread, only clawed back £20k.

If the Police do take an interest in this matter, then even paying back the money may not be enough to stave off conviction and imprisonment.

[littleFred]

It would be the ultimate get-into-debt-free success: GOOFer tries to claim back mortgage payments, hoping to keep both money and house; instead GOOFer loses money and/or house and/or liberty.

[Hercule Parrot]

My understanding is that they had 10 days to re-butt my claim so how can they write to me 5 months later with this demand?

It's impossible to have any sympathy for someone who thought he could defraud £26,000, and then if the victims didn't complain about it quickly enough he could legally keep their money.

Also Nationwide building society have froze my account and it is being dealt with by the special investigation department...

Hopefully just the start of a long and stressful journey, which will end with his house being seized and sold to pay back what he owes. The best he can pray for is that they allow him to pay it back gradually, with appropriate interest added.

[notorial dissent]

The system you have in place there must be vastly different than the one we use here. I used to investigate low level VISA claims, and we of course had some far bigger than this, but we never would have just reversed something like this out of hand.

On something like that mortgage reversal I can't begin to imagine that we'd have reversed anything like £26,000, without suspecting fraud, in this case on the part of the cardholder.

I can see them getting away with this on small items, happens all the time, but utility bills and mortgage payments, just doesn't make sense. and what it does come down to is fraud once it is done, not maybe, but felony fraud, and we, and whoever they defrauded would have pressed charges. Frozen bank accounts would have been the least of their problems.

[mufc1959]

Looks as if things might have escalated for poor old GOOFY murph75.

http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... 49#p376558

[vampireLOREN]

Looks as if things might have escalated for poor old GOOFY murph75.

http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... 49#p376558

Good serve the RatBag right.

[Hercule Parrot]

Looks as if things might have escalated for poor old GOOFY murph75.
http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... 49#p376558

I am also shocked to read the content of your letter dated 8th April 2015 which states you are investigating claims of direct debit indemnity fraud. You categorically told me on the phone that you wasn't accusing me of fraud, yet

Or to paraphrase :- Huh? You're not supposed to notice that I'm defrauding you! I demand that you look the other way and let me unlawfully enrich myself by false representation!

[Hyrion]

Looks as if things might have escalated for poor old GOOFY murph75.

http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... 49#p376558

That link is LOADS of fun. Caveat: I have a guilty, uncivilized pleasure of watching people harm themselves.

First good laugh: other posters (with the apparent exception of aarons1950) are encouraging him to continue on course - while he is full well knowing he's being investigated for Fraud - something that usually can be expected to bring criminal charges and jail time.

Next good laugh:

I have banked with the nationwide building society for over 37 years and to be dealing with the fraud investigation department is causing me severe alarm and distress.

Well... the obvious suggestion is that he follow up with appropriate Legal representation, fully disclose what he did and why, and find out if he really did commit fraud. If so, the stress is all his own creation.

Third chuckle: apparently he believes the investigation into the direct debit reversal request would require the Bank to follow up with a third party (assuming it was a third-party that did the direct debit) and legally verify any contractual obligations he may have with third-party. Bzzzzz - no such luck. Without any kind of Court Order, I doubt the third party is required to disclose anything with the bank. The claim of Fraud likely came from said third party after the funds had been reversed.

Next good laugh: he's provided the previous conversation for review - not in the post, just his correspondence with the bank, and assuming the conversation actually occurred and the notes can be trusted to reflect the reality of the time and have not been modified. That's the prime problem with OPCA types, they establish a pretty large lack of credibility very early on. Perhaps he should re-review his own notes to see if he was totally honest with the situation or even if he's being totally honest with himself.

From what I can see with regards Northern Rock - mentioned in the correspondence and assuming I have the correct entity identified - it looks like a building society that turned bank which was then acquired by Virgin Money. So perhaps he clawed back mortgage funds - that could be a pretty significant ouch he can look forward to.

[rumpelstilzchen]

The idiot has clawed back £26000 which was mortgage payments.
http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... 23#p326023

This should be a barrel of laughs.

[littleFred]

Yes, it was a mortgage:

3 Weeks to finally get my clawback from Nationwide BS, it was for my mortgage payments from Northern rock from 2007 - 2009

Just git £26,000 credited to my account

[mufc1959]

I bet his next step will be a complaint to the ombudsman. They'll have a lot of sympathy for his unfortunate predicament.

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/v ... leID=57469

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/v ... leID=69601

The second decision is quite amusing where the ombudsman has to explain to Ms G that a writ of habeus corpus has got nothing to do with a mortgage.

[Hercule Parrot]

Yes, it was a mortgage:

Just git £26,000 credited to my account etc...

And now you've just git £26,000 added to your mortgage debt, with the result that you are now in massive arrears. If you double your monthly payments then you might be able to clear it before you reach retirement age. Otherwise the bank will take your home and sell it to recover what you owe them. And all the time, you'll be paying interest on it.

Well done, Murphy - you've taught those Zionist Nazi bankers a lesson....

[mufc1959]

If it was 2007-2009, he might not have that mortgage any more. In which case Northern Rock might be thinking about reporting it to the police.

[ArthurWankspittle]

If it was 2007-2009, he might not have that mortgage any more. In which case Northern Rock might be thinking about reporting it to the police.

I'm wondering if his action coincided with one of the periods of financial turmoil at various banks and building societies at the time, and his "refund" slipped through the net.
I also await (as I think I mentioned here previously), the lender to reset the loan back to the start date minus the refund. One of these sovcit types will hold the British record for mortgage arrears at like 96 months missed payments. Bear in mind, here it used to be the case that 6 months arrears was really bad, hardly anyone would lend you money, and then it would be at 40% apr and have to be secured. Beyond 9 months arrears you were pretty well untouchable as a borrower. These jokers are 4-10 times beyond that.

[PeanutGallery]

Apparently the clawback was in October 2014. I'd think it's likely that a mistake was made somewhere along the lines, in terms of allowing the clawback, and now the bank are dealing with a rather unhappy Northern Rock Asset Management department asking where their money is.

If the mortgage has been discharged, then this may prove to be an interesting legal conundrum, however if not then the matter would be simpler to deal with. Based on the limited information we have in which Murphy has not indicated that they have had any contact from Northern Rock, I would think that the mortgage had been discharged when Murphy made the clawback.

In this case NRAM may need to get a court order to reinstate the mortgage and then apply the arrears. In the meantime both banks will likely be treating this as fraud. Which is what it seems to be.

I'd also just highlight this excerpt from a passage of Murphy's own letter to Nationwide.

You categorically told me on the phone that you wasn't accusing me of fraud, yet
* Emphasis mine

[notorial dissent]

What amazes me is that this financial genius doesn't seem to get the yet part. If this really was over a mortgage, the bank/lender as was pointed out can go back to court and have the cancellation voided for fraud, seize the property for non-payment, and then just for good measure file wire fraud charges against the doofus. I have a hard time imagining why and how he got away with it, but I still don't see why he thinks he should get away with it. The level of I'm not sure just what boggles the mind.

[littleFred]

I have a hard time imagining why and how he got away with it ...

I don't think he has got away with it. On the contrary, I expect civil and criminal proceedings will follow.

Crimes are always possible. Theft, murder, whatever. GOOFers don't seem that realise that merely because something is possible, this doesn't give them a right to do it.

[mufc1959]

The one silver lining for murphy75 is that, once he's blacklisted by every bank because of the CIFAS (fraud) markers against his name, there's one bank which will be happy to welcome him as a new customer and will deposit £150K into his account as a welcome handshake ...

[Bones]

Apparently the clawback was in October 2014. I'd think it's likely that a mistake was made somewhere along the lines, in terms of allowing the clawback, and now the bank are dealing with a rather unhappy Northern Rock Asset Management department asking where their money is.

The Direct Debit Indemnity is heavily weighted in favour of the customer and there isn't really anything to stop someone claiming back any payment made by DD.

However, obviously to make a dd claim, you usually give a reason and it will be the reason given that will be fraudulent - i.e didn't owe the money, payment were taken in error etc.

Even Rabbit man isn't this stupid, to reclaim mortgage payments, he pays in good old cold hard cash over the counter.

[PeanutGallery]

Having recently discovered GooF jimmyw's youtube channel I thought I would give it a look to see if it contained any of the regular sovrun gems. While browsing I noticed this video, in which jimmy gloats about having defrauded Moorcroft and another company of around £5,000.00.

This obviously could have ramifications for Jimmy. Especially if on one of his video's he gave his name as Jim Wild and in a posting on another video claims to live in Huddersfield.