Tom Crawford failed judgment 3/9/15 Part 1 & 2

[Jeffrey]

should someone - who he believes - tell him that Ebert and Ceylon couldn't have gotten basic facts more wrong.

The ideal person to do this would be one of Tom's kids, but yeah, we know how they are.

[notorial dissent]

From what I can see from my distant vantage point is that Tom 1) hasn't a clue, 2) doesn't know what he is doing, 3) doesn't know what he is asking for, and 5) is so totally disorganized that he can't even present his delusions in a format anyone can get a grip on.

I will say that I don't think any of the judges really told him to sit down, shut up, and listen for long enough to tell him exactly what happened and why he is out on his ass. Not that I really expect he would have listened or understood.

The man is a fool and an idiot, and that is a powerfully dangerous combination.

[hanlons razor]

The only time tom will ever see sense will be that crushing day when his so called advisors have long since abandoned him, when he and Sue are living where ever they can find (as they'll be viewed as intentionally homeless) having both been made Bankrupt, when his marriage is possibly falling apart due to what are likely to be incredible strains none of us can even begin to imagine. And that day, if it comes, I hope to god tom has somebody who will still be there for him. Because greater men have succumbed to far less weights than will hit him the day he realises just how foolish he has been and just what he has lost thrush his choices and actions.

[fat frank]

The only time tom will ever see sense will be that crushing day when his so called advisors have long since abandoned him, when he and Sue are living where ever they can find (as they'll be viewed as intentionally homeless) having both been made Bankrupt, when his marriage is possibly falling apart due to what are likely to be incredible strains none of us can even begin to imagine. And that day, if it comes, I hope to god tom has somebody who will still be there for him. Because greater men have succumbed to far less weights than will hit him the day he realises just how foolish he has been and just what he has lost thrush his choices and actions.

but what you got to remember is they WON, lol

[SteveUK]

So, with the prospect of SMH being taken back, and an unsympathetic council classing then as deliberately honeless......they might be shacking up with one of their delightful offspring for quite a bit.

[noblepa]

I have been following the saga of Tom Crawford for a long time. I fully realize that he is lying, deceitful and stupid and has brought all this upon himself.

However, I can't help feeling a little sorry for him. His ignorance of the law, and of how mortgages work (especially interest-only loans), plus his reliance on Ceylon, Haining and others has completely ruined his life. Not only that, but it is hurting his family, especially his wife, who will almost certainly lose her inheritance over this fiasco. His kids are messed up, too.

To a certain point, it was entertaining to watch him try to pitch his legal gibberish. Now that he has lost so completely, it is simply pathetic. The man who was once a subject of scorn and derision has become an object of pity.

Its like watching a train wreck, or someone's house burning to the ground. Its fascinating, but I can't help but see past it to the financial and human toll this is taking on the Crawford family. If I knew them personally, I don't think I would like them, but it is still painful to witness their descent.

[AndyPandy]

I have been following the saga of Tom Crawford for a long time. I fully realize that he is lying, deceitful and stupid and has brought all this upon himself.

However, I can't help feeling a little sorry for him. His ignorance of the law, and of how mortgages work (especially interest-only loans), plus his reliance on Ceylon, Haining and others has completely ruined his life. Not only that, but it is hurting his family, especially his wife, who will almost certainly lose her inheritance over this fiasco. His kids are messed up, too.

To a certain point, it was entertaining to watch him try to pitch his legal gibberish. Now that he has lost so completely, it is simply pathetic. The man who was once a subject of scorn and derision has become an object of pity.

Its like watching a train wreck, or someone's house burning to the ground. Its fascinating, but I can't help but see past it to the financial and human toll this is taking on the Crawford family. If I knew them personally, I don't think I would like them, but it is still painful to witness their descent.

Without a doubt you're right and sites like this were set up specifically to highlight that the kind of 'freeman' advise on offer not only doesn't get you out of debt it has a nasty habit of making it about £98,000 worse.

What scares me is that these people cannot see 'the light' and continue down this barking mad route advising others to follow then into poverty and homelessness.

[NYGman]

I have been following the saga of Tom Crawford for a long time. I fully realize that he is lying, deceitful and stupid and has brought all this upon himself.

However, I can't help feeling a little sorry for him. His ignorance of the law, and of how mortgages work (especially interest-only loans), plus his reliance on Ceylon, Haining and others has completely ruined his life. Not only that, but it is hurting his family, especially his wife, who will almost certainly lose her inheritance over this fiasco. His kids are messed up, too.

To a certain point, it was entertaining to watch him try to pitch his legal gibberish. Now that he has lost so completely, it is simply pathetic. The man who was once a subject of scorn and derision has become an object of pity.

Its like watching a train wreck, or someone's house burning to the ground. Its fascinating, but I can't help but see past it to the financial and human toll this is taking on the Crawford family. If I knew them personally, I don't think I would like them, but it is still painful to witness their descent.

Without a doubt you're right and sites like this were set up specifically to highlight that the kind of 'freeman' advise on offer not only doesn't get you out of debt it has a nasty habit of making it about £98,000 worse.

What scares me is that these people cannot see 'the light' and continue down this barking mad route advising others to follow then into poverty and homelessness.

In some ways I agree. If I were a Lawyer in the UK, I would offer my assistance to him for free, then debunk his legal advisers, and find some way to sue them for the damage they have done to ole' Tom. However, I left the UK many, many, many years ago, and never went back after law school to qualify there, so I am unable to help him, or at least attempt to.

He is obviously not a bright man, he has latched on to the FMOTL movement, and fully embraced their ideals and guru's and really has lost touch with reality. It is very sad, and I wish I was in a position to assist. I will add, I probably would have intervened much, much earlier.

I also wonder, if there isn't free legal advice he could be entitled to. I know my law school in the US had a group that worked on housing issues just like this. I am sure help was available, I just wonder why he never explored the legitimate avenues of free advice.

[guilty]

I just wonder why he never explored the legitimate avenues of free advice.

Because he knew what that advice would be?

[NG3]

I also wonder, if there isn't free legal advice he could be entitled to.

Yes, there are plenty of groups in this area, and across the wider city, that offer free advice as well as many law firms in the city who will give you the first hour free, regardless of circumstances.

[PeanutGallery]

I would think that even if Tom were offered pro-bono representation he would refuse it completely and send the lawyer packing. Mostly because any competent lawyer would tell him what his actual chances are while his advisers tell him what he wants to hear. I don't think he would take the truth very kindly, which is that he's lost his house and racked up a considerable amount of additional debt because he listened to idiots.

Having said that he would, in my limited opinion, have grounds to sue his advisers, but again to what end? None of them strike me as having assets enough to cover the damage they have done and so Tom wouldn't stand to gain any improvement from it.

Tom is a trainwreck, that much is certain, we can't change that for him and maybe he doesn't deserve all the consequences of what has happened, but the real risk is that their are trains coming after him and heading towards the same junction. We should focus on warning them off the path, by showing them what fate awaits. If Tom's failure can help to educate at least one person away from becoming another Crawford then it will all be worthwhile.

[NYGman]

I also wonder, if there isn't free legal advice he could be entitled to.

Yes, there are plenty of groups in this area, and across the wider city, that offer free advice as well as many law firms in the city who will give you the first hour free, regardless of circumstances.

Shame really, he didn't go this route. I am sure they are all passive organizations, that wait for you to come in, but Situations like Tom need some active management. I know it doesn't really exist anywhere, but maybe it should. However, I still regret I could not reach out directly to him, as I am not UK Lawyer. I could see forming some type of charitable organization that conducted active community reach out, monitored social media and GOOFY sites looking for vulnerable people being taken in by these Guru's, who show a reckless disregard to, well most everything. It is all about heading these things off early, before the Woo starts to fly, and the poor sap gets sucked in to the promise of solving their situation for free. You really get what you pay for on GOOFY, and you really can't get anything of value for nothing...

[NG3]

I could see forming some type of charitable organization that conducted active community reach out, monitored social media and GOOFY sites looking for vulnerable people being taken in by these Guru's, who show a reckless disregard to, well most everything. It is all about heading these things off early, before the Woo starts to fly, and the poor sap gets sucked in to the promise of solving their situation for free.

I am but one man, but in my own little way I try.

I have all the help groups, charities and free legal services contact details in a file and if I see someone in trouble, online or off, I try to help, or if I can't I try to steer them in the right direction.

I don't do it as a job, or anything though, it's just my natural instinct, I'm a bit soppy really, and as such always willing to help someone out.

[NYGman]

Good man, NG3, but one man can not do it alone

[schismatrix]

I don't do it as a job, or anything though, it's just my natural instinct, I'm a bit soppy really, and as such always willing to help someone out.

That's OK, it's not your fault you're a decent human being.

[Joinder]

The problem wasn't so much the bad advice, it was that Tom consistently lied about his situation all through the saga.
He was deceitful and relied upon the other deceitful bastards that he teamed up with to hoodwink everyone.
He did this successfully for a while and thought he could get away with it.

[Hyrion]

I will say that I don't think any of the judges really told him to sit down, shut up, and listen for long enough to tell him exactly what happened and why he is out on his ass.

Edited the following point for clarity:

I disagree.

On the point of the alleged fraud perpetrated by B&B and an example of the clear words of the Judge:

70. Mr Crawford : His Honour Godsmark, in this document and I believe that is in his
judgment, this is page … this is 91 of his judgment, he could not find at the time of
commencement of possession proceedings, where a total of £1,802.90, and he states here
“that is not a figure that I could identify from the statements” and when he asked the
barristers where it came from Ms Sanders told him “from the computer”. And as he said
here, “the computer should be our slave, not our master”. He knew that there was a
problem with the accounts. We’d insisted that Bradford & Bingley produce accounts; the
only things they produced was three payments which is in that document, which I’ve just
passed up to you.
71. Mr Justice Phillips : He goes on to say: “However, none of this helps Mr Crawford in
relation to possession. The entitlement to possession is triggered by…”.
72. Mr Crawford : (inaudible) page 44 … paragraph 44. 82.
73. Mr Justice Phillips : Right. Paragraph 45 records that you stopped making payments
whilst the possession order was suspended on condition that you make payments.
74. Mr Crawford : No, the evidence is that we paid right to the very, very last month, and
plus an extra one on top of it.

Tom knows - or in the alternative is in sufficient access to information he reasonably should have known:

• 1: The mortgage was endowment only - He has agreed to this understanding insisting B&B have tried to change his mortgage from such to a repayment mortgage and Tom absolutely did not want that

• 2: The endowment portion was cashed in - He knows this from his own bank records

• 3: As he was making payments, only interest was being paid - He knows this from looking at his regular statements showing the principal amount of the mortgage was not decreasing

• 4: He knows that at the end he had the original mortgage amount to pay - he stated this fact in a post to the Goofy site before the payments were due to expire asking how he could keep his house without paying further

Tom's position is clear: he has arbitrarily decided (against his original agreement and his clear decision not to increase his payments) that his interest payments were enough and that the outstanding loan balance is not required to be paid.

Sorry but in my humble opinion the Judges were very clear on why he still owed money, why the interest payments were still being paid and what triggered the repossession order.

The bottom line is: Tom does not want to hear anything that disagrees with the position he wants to believe in.

When you're dealing with such an individual - there's nothing you can do to help them until they decide they're ready to listen and be reasonable. You can't force someone to listen when they don't want to listen..... that only causes them to rebel more forcefully - pushing them further down the path they have chosen. Free Will is a powerful force - for both positive and negative results.

[AndyPandy]

"However, I still regret I could not reach out directly to him, as I am not UK Lawyer".

To be honest NYG if you had (as I believe did Letissier & YiamCross) you, as they did, would have received nothing but vile abuse. Many people tried to tell them, but they were so caught up in the illusion of victory that every attempt to give some reality to the situation was rebuffed, with the mildest comments being 'we won, you don't understand legalese'.

Unfortunately, the Judgment was given in clear, easily understood English, they just refused to accept it.

[NYGman]

Free Will is a powerful force - for both positive and negative results.

Sorry, in another thread, Frewill was kidnapped.

[NYGman]

"However, I still regret I could not reach out directly to him, as I am not UK Lawyer".

To be honest NYG if you had (as I believe did Letissier & YiamCross) you, as they did, would have received nothing but vile abuse. Many people tried to tell them, but they were so caught up in the illusion of victory that every attempt to give some reality to the situation was rebuffed, with the mildest comments being 'we won, you don't understand legalese'.

Unfortunately, the Judgment was given in clear, easily understood English, they just refused to accept it.

I think it is a matter timing.We got to him too late. Then again, based on the GOOFY post, he may have past the point of no return, prior to the GOOFY post.