Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

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longdog
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by longdog »

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
fat frank wrote:....if its a proper loan the loan is registered against the car, the bailiffs should check this and also with the DVLA....
I don't believe the mechanism to do this exists. You can only check ownership. If you own a car and have a loan, it's still your car (and a bailiff could impound it).
You can check if a car has outstanding finance through HPI (https://www.hpi.co.uk/home/).
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

longdog wrote:
ArthurWankspittle wrote:
fat frank wrote:....if its a proper loan the loan is registered against the car, the bailiffs should check this and also with the DVLA....
I don't believe the mechanism to do this exists. You can only check ownership. If you own a car and have a loan, it's still your car (and a bailiff could impound it).
You can check if a car has outstanding finance through HPI (https://www.hpi.co.uk/home/).
if the loan is secured on the car, then its not your car till its paid off, if you get a loan to buy a car, then the car is yours, bailiffs are starting to check all vehicle before they clamp, it usually the dodgy one who turn up at 6 am and clamp then run off,

if they clamp a vehicle and its on finance they can be sued and they know that, this is why they have to lodge a 10k bond at the court that issued there certificate, and you can sue for this in the civil courts and also sue the company/person who sent them, as they are responsible for anything the bailiff does,


a bailiff recently went to someones house, with a court warrant, that he had written a new address on in ink, and he claimed he was allowed to do this, he isn't, a complaint was made and shock horror case drop and the people who send him are trying to blame him for changing court documents, as they are meant to apply for a new warrant and pay a new fee, but he wanted his fees, which he isn't going to get and will prob lose his job as well
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

a bailiff can also not clamp a car if its for use by a disabled person, and doesn't have to have the blue badge in window, but it helps
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

fat frank wrote:a bailiff can also not clamp a car if its for use by a disabled person, and doesn't have to have the blue badge in window, but it helps
Yes, agree with that as it is necessary for the person's normal lifestyle. The loan bit I'm starting to understand (yes, you should HPI it), but it would need to be HP, a lease or a loan with a Scott v Avery clause (if it's still called that). In reality any legitimate lender's contract probably falls into one of those categories. Not a FOTL mate's scrap of paper. There's also several contra-indications that a FOTL mate's loan agreement is fake, but I'll save that for another time.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

that's why it will fail, its weather the bailiff can be bothered to try and collect or more on to easier target
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by Hercule Parrot »

mufc1959 wrote:It wouldn't show up on the HPI check, so a bailiff is unlikely to take any notice of it.
It's also a fraudulent instrument, created with the intention of obstructing justice - quite possibly capable of being charged as a criminal offence, especially with the magic words "conspiracy to...." added. If anyone ever attempted to submit one of these execrable "loans" as evidence in a civil court, then it would be picked apart within minutes. Civil courts in UK work on Balance of Probability, so a few simple questions would persuade most judges...

So you have no evidence of the monies being withdrawn or transferred by the lender, and no evidence of it being received or paid-into a bank by the borrower? You say the whole transaction was carried out with untraceable cash, and the only proof of it is that you stand here and say so...?
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

and then there's the Consumer Credit Act......
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by Greengrass »

The chances are they would only try & do this once they have received the knock on the door and will try to back date everything - something the Enforcement Co's are well aware of. What they will have forgotten about is that once the Bailiff has the Warrant then the goods of the debtor become bound and cannot be disposed of - in the case of a High Court Writ this happens once the Writ is issued. They may also have no knowledge of a case earlier this year when a Judge ruled that some goods on finance may be seized & sold if there appears to be a "Beneficial interest" in the goods concerned - can't remember the case at present.

There is a different way according to this http://www.fair-parking.co.uk/protectio ... lane-fines
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

Greengrass wrote:The chances are they would only try & do this once they have received the knock on the door and will try to back date everything - something the Enforcement Co's are well aware of. What they will have forgotten about is that once the Bailiff has the Warrant then the goods of the debtor become bound and cannot be disposed of - in the case of a High Court Writ this happens once the Writ is issued. They may also have no knowledge of a case earlier this year when a Judge ruled that some goods on finance may be seized & sold if there appears to be a "Beneficial interest" in the goods concerned - can't remember the case at present.

There is a different way according to this http://www.fair-parking.co.uk/protectio ... lane-fines
they claim they have bound your goods, but how do they know what goods you have, this is one of the reasons they need a signed walking possession order, as otherwise they haven't got a clue what someone owns, worse thing you can do is let a bailiff in the house, keep car in a LTD companys name and that cant be touched either, if your goods where bound, then why cant they force entry with out a signed walking possession order?

think that case was over a car,
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by Skeleton »

Ok legal eagles I think I have caught up so riddle me this.

I am in the UK and get a parking ticket in a Council run car park, (not a private one for me and America) I don't want to pay it so I ignore all the letters and allow them to take me to court. The Council bailiffs are after me because I am found guilty, but like Blackadder's cunning fox, I have a cunning plan, I simply "sell" the car to my wife and send off the V5 to Swansea to prove so.

Could they take (tow) the car then?
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by NigelJK »

Could they take (tow) the car then?
IIRC Council tickets (or for our US chums decriminalised tickets handed out via duly appointed and attired Civil Enforcement Officers) can be (and usually are) subject to a DVLA check and then the registered keeper, on the balance of probability, is liable at the time of the offence.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by PeanutGallery »

Skeleton wrote:Ok legal eagles I think I have caught up so riddle me this.

I am in the UK and get a parking ticket in a Council run car park, (not a private one for me and America) I don't want to pay it so I ignore all the letters and allow them to take me to court. The Council bailiffs are after me because I am found guilty, but like Blackadder's cunning fox, I have a cunning plan, I simply "sell" the car to my wife and send off the V5 to Swansea to prove so.

Could they take (tow) the car then?
The bailiffs would do the following, first clamp the car, which is probably on the drive. Then ask to see proof that your wife owns the car. The V5, doesn't provide details of ownership. It only states who the registered keeper is. As an example, earlier this year I bought a second car for my father to use, it's registered in his name, but legally I own it. I can prove ownership through bank receipts and the contract.

Now while the bailiffs have your wife's car clamped up, they'd up the pressure, probably by telling you a removal truck is on the way, which will add to the bill you owe, but if you want to dispute their right to take the car you need to get the documents together and send it off to them within 14 days and then you should get your car back, however the car is going today unless you pay up. Of course after the car goes you won't be able to use it and what they are gambling on is that you have a need for the car today or tomorrow and will pay up to get rid of them, only to try and dispute things later (during which their office will give you the run around and leave you in a position where you'll need to take court action, which will be pretty tricky because you actually did owe the money).

If you don't pay up, then what they will be looking for, evidence wise, is an actual transfer of funds from your wife to you, as well as the insurance policy and tax details being changed. These are all the little details that those trying this tactic generally forget to do. However even if you have done all that, they will still have taken the car and returned it about a week later and will continue to pursue you for what is owed.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by YiamCross »

PeanutGallery wrote:
The bailiffs would do the following, first clamp the car, ..... will continue to pursue you for what is owed.
Blimey. So you think they've come across this kind of thing before, do you? Almost every day perhaps?
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by NigelJK »

Being as they are there to collect 'to the value of' and parking 'fines' even when allowed to escalate to bailiffs are unlikely to go above the amount for a nice telly and a couple of nice watches they would most likely go for that if in dispute, they (unlike our friends) are under an obligation to keep things to a minimum which means only one visit unless unavoidable.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by noblepa »

fat frank wrote:
longdog wrote:
ArthurWankspittle wrote:I don't believe the mechanism to do this exists. You can only check ownership. If you own a car and have a loan, it's still your car (and a bailiff could impound it).
You can check if a car has outstanding finance through HPI (https://www.hpi.co.uk/home/).
if the loan is secured on the car, then its not your car till its paid off, if you get a loan to buy a car, then the car is yours, bailiffs are starting to check all vehicle before they clamp, it usually the dodgy one who turn up at 6 am and clamp then run off,

if they clamp a vehicle and its on finance they can be sued and they know that, this is why they have to lodge a 10k bond at the court that issued there certificate, and you can sue for this in the civil courts and also sue the company/person who sent them, as they are responsible for anything the bailiff does,
I am a US resident, so please forgive my ignorance of UK law.

Are you saying that, if you buy a car and finance the purchase, then you can park anywhere you like, and the police can do nothing about it? Or are you saying that they can issue a citation, but can not enforce it by putting a wheel clamp on the car when you have run up a few dozen unpaid tickets?

This, to me, clearly makes no sense at all. I have to believe that in the UK, as in the US, most new car purchases are financed. That would lead to chaos, if the police could not enforce parking laws against those cars.

And, as for ownership of the car, in the US, a financed car is owned 100 percent by the person named on the title. If there is a loan, the lender has a security interest in the car, but they are not considered in any way to be the owner. Here, the lender usually keeps the paper copy of the certificate of title, as collateral, preventing the owner from selling the car without repaying the loan. The borrower is given a "Memorandum Certificate of Title" to allow the car to be registered, but which can not be used to sell the car. Is the law different in the UK?
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

Skeleton wrote:Ok legal eagles I think I have caught up so riddle me this.

I am in the UK and get a parking ticket in a Council run car park, (not a private one for me and America) I don't want to pay it so I ignore all the letters and allow them to take me to court. The Council bailiffs are after me because I am found guilty, but like Blackadder's cunning fox, I have a cunning plan, I simply "sell" the car to my wife and send off the V5 to Swansea to prove so.

Could they take (tow) the car then?
they could clamp but since it isn't in your name and was changed after the ticket was issued, your wife could file a EAC2 at the court and sue the bailiff and council

if you sell it, change tax and insurance over as well, ie she tax and insures the car
Last edited by fat frank on Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

they will claim that the V5 doesn't prove she owns it, but its is good enough as proof of ownership when they want to take it
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

noblepa wrote:Are you saying that, if you buy a car and finance the purchase, then you can park anywhere you like, and the police can do nothing about it? Or are you saying that they can issue a citation, but can not enforce it by putting a wheel clamp on the car when you have run up a few dozen unpaid tickets?
No. Motoring offences or Parking offences on public roads would allow the clamping or removal of the vehicle. Overstaying on private land or a civil debt could be enforced by the bailiff (after court case etc.) taking the car to pay the debt. This attempt at avoidance is only for the latter situation. In the UK vehicles can be owned by the finance company and leased or hire purchased by the end user. They retain ownership of the vehicle, which makes it easy for them to get it back if you don't pay the lease or hire.
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by fat frank »

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
noblepa wrote:Are you saying that, if you buy a car and finance the purchase, then you can park anywhere you like, and the police can do nothing about it? Or are you saying that they can issue a citation, but can not enforce it by putting a wheel clamp on the car when you have run up a few dozen unpaid tickets?
No. Motoring offences or Parking offences on public roads would allow the clamping or removal of the vehicle. Overstaying on private land or a civil debt could be enforced by the bailiff (after court case etc.) taking the car to pay the debt. This attempt at avoidance is only for the latter situation. In the UK vehicles can be owned by the finance company and leased or hire purchased by the end user. They retain ownership of the vehicle, which makes it easy for them to get it back if you don't pay the lease or hire.

even if the ticket is a council/court fine, the car isn't yours so they cant take it, this is why they hope it isn't on finance
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Re: Facebook group - Bailiff proof your car

Post by Greengrass »

fat frank wrote:
they claim they have bound your goods, but how do they know what goods you have, this is one of the reasons they need a signed walking possession order, as otherwise they haven't got a clue what someone owns, worse thing you can do is let a bailiff in the house, keep car in a LTD companys name and that cant be touched either, if your goods where bound, then why cant they force entry with out a signed walking possession order?

think that case was over a car,
They don't need to know what goods you have - if any - you cannot sell, transfer or dispose of anything. Signed walking possession is a thing of the past since April 2014 and no longer applicable. Keeping a car in a Ltd Co is no bar as goods belonging to a Ltd Co have no protection and in any case for some of these wallys they could not keep up with the paperwork. You should also note it is a misconception that Bailiffs cannot force entry - a little known entry in the TCE Act allows this to happen - via a Court Order - if it is suspected that there may be goods on the premises that if sold could satisfy the debt. This has happened several times although usually restricted to those who have visible trappings of wealth but refuse to open the door - read into this big detached house, big car on drive - & usually done in High Court cases.