Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

[ArthurWankspittle]

No a District Judge will sit at Magistrates Court.

Ah ok, got it. Magistrates Court but in front of DJ. Be good if someone was in there because these cases aren't formally recorded (IIRC) and I suspect the bollocking Tom will get off a DJ will be worth listening to. Plus Tom will never report it.

[exiledscouser]

So as I follow this (please correct me otherwise) Tom appeared in the Magistrates Court for some sort of plea and directions hearing relating to a charge of criminal damage. He tried his usual antics and in a stunning victory succeeded in having the matter listed for trial in September, I'm assuming at Notts Mags.

Furthermore that it'll be before a DJ (formerly a "Stipe" or paid Magistrate) and not a lay bench. Excellent. They tend not to tolerate self aggrandising buffoons or their fellow travellers baying from the public gallery so here is all the makings of a grand day out.

As for venue, I think that criminal damage below a certain monetary value is summary only I.e. confined to the Magistrates court. Tom is failing in his efforts to go before a jury. My worry is that he'll finally realise this then go do something truly stupid in order to reach Crown Court.

[afateworsethandeath]

Yes it tends to be that criminal damage offences under £5000 stay at Magistrates Court, although as an either way offence that isn't always the case. With a DJ in attendance I suspect that TC will have rather a shorter day in court than he perhaps anticipates. They do not tend to tolerate any ridiculousness

[afateworsethandeath]

What TC seems to fail to grasp is that even if the case did go to Crown Court, the Judge in attendance there would be even less likely to stand any of his grand standing. They would instruct the jury to disregard his undoubted comments on the conspiracies of the system and to concentrate on matters regarding the alleged offences being heard.

[afateworsethandeath]

Having listened to some of the RN podcast from recently involving TC and GT it is apparent that TC really has lost all sense of reality and sanity, making outlandish statements such as the Police hacked his phone, and that they classified him as a terrorist. He is so full of his own self importance and grandiose that it is alarming. He is dangerous

[Hercule Parrot]

What TC seems to fail to grasp is that even if the case did go to Crown Court, the Judge in attendance there would be even less likely to stand any of his grand standing.

There would be no jury, AFAIK. Appeals from Mags are heard by a Circuit Judge sitting with two magistrates

[FatGambit]

Can they give him an absolute discharge? That would be funny (think I got that right, it's where the magistrate finds you guilty but gives you no punishment, I think).

[Interobang]

Somebody will be there, I'm sure.

?!

[Skeleton]

Can they give him an absolute discharge? That would be funny (think I got that right, it's where the magistrate finds you guilty but gives you no punishment, I think).

An Absolute Discharge means exactly what you say. We know you did it, we find you guilty of doing it but we are not going to punish you for it. You do not get a criminal record from the sentence either. As Tom moves "up" through the Court system i do not know if it is a sentence that is available though?

Toms in for a shock though when it finally dawns on him and his crack team of legal advisers what he is actually in court for, and that is all they are going to debate, as others have mentioned I can see him doing something even more dangerous, It will not please the neighbours but I sadly doubt they have seen the last of Tom.

[mufc1959]

Toms in for a shock though when it finally dawns on him and his crack team of legal advisers what he is actually in court for, and that is all they are going to debate, as others have mentioned I can see him doing something even more dangerous, It will not please the neighbours but I sadly doubt they have seen the last of Tom.

Yes, I totally agree. If Tom thinks a case of criminal damages in the Mags Court is going to end up in the Crown Court, he's very much mistaken. But, as Skeleton says, he'll escalate his actions until he does something that'll end up with him being banged up - I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to burn the place down or something like that.

[Burnaby49]

Toms in for a shock though when it finally dawns on him and his crack team of legal advisers what he is actually in court for, and that is all they are going to debate, as others have mentioned I can see him doing something even more dangerous, It will not please the neighbours but I sadly doubt they have seen the last of Tom.

Yes, I totally agree. If Tom thinks a case of criminal damages in the Mags Court is going to end up in the Crown Court, he's very much mistaken. But, as Skeleton says, he'll escalate his actions until he does something that'll end up with him being banged up - I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to burn the place down or something like that.

At least that would solve the problem for the neighbours. Place is turning into a dump anyhow and might well come down when somone does something with it. Nice neighbourhood though.

[Chaos]

An Absolute Discharge means exactly what you say. We know you did it, we find you guilty of doing it but we are not going to punish you for it. You do not get a criminal record from the sentence either.

then why even waste the resources?

[FatGambit]

I was thinking that if he got an absolute dischgarge I wonder how far he'd appeal it? ECHR perhaps? I can't imagine the Courts have many people appealing an AD

[Forsyth]

An Absolute Discharge means exactly what you say. We know you did it, we find you guilty of doing it but we are not going to punish you for it. You do not get a criminal record from the sentence either.

then why even waste the resources?

I see Absolute Discharges as the judges version of jury nullification. Sometimes it's used for situations where the charges should never have been brought (and may come with an implied or actually stated criticism of the CPS for bringing the case), but it's also used for more unusual cases where it is within the judge's remit to decide that a person should not receive a punishment despite the situation normally justifying it. Quite often it's because the accused managed to inflict some form of punishment on themselves (such as a serious injury) as part of their crime and the judge feels that this will be a sufficient deterrent from any further misbehaviour. In these cases the CPS may want a case to proceed in public so that any determination is seen to be made independently and subject to scrutiny.

[ArthurWankspittle]

An Absolute Discharge means exactly what you say. We know you did it, we find you guilty of doing it but we are not going to punish you for it. You do not get a criminal record from the sentence either.

then why even waste the resources?

Because the process has started. IIRC it isn't that common an outcome as the prosecution would normally withdraw or offer no further evidence at the point it becomes obvious that the case isn't going anywhere. I also tend to think it mainly occurs for guilty pleas to minor offences only, and with lots of extenuating circumstances.

[Bill Lumbergh]

In Canada an absolute discharge is visible on the criminal record for one year. After that it can't be used against you unless you are convicted of another crime in the interim. It's appropriate for low level offences and first time offenders, really out of character incidents etc. It's used where the offender doesn't need probation and hampering him with a criminal record for the rest of his life would be disproportionate.

[Chaos]

In Canada an absolute discharge is visible on the criminal record for one year. After that it can't be used against you unless you are convicted of another crime in the interim. It's appropriate for low level offences and first time offenders, really out of character incidents etc. It's used where the offender doesn't need probation and hampering him with a criminal record for the rest of his life would be disproportionate.

if that's the way it works over there, then I get it.

[Skeleton]

In Canada an absolute discharge is visible on the criminal record for one year. After that it can't be used against you unless you are convicted of another crime in the interim. It's appropriate for low level offences and first time offenders, really out of character incidents etc. It's used where the offender doesn't need probation and hampering him with a criminal record for the rest of his life would be disproportionate.

if that's the way it works over there, then I get it.

As an example of how I have seen it used in the UK, years ago a friend of mine had been accepted to join the RAF. Prior to him reporting for basic training he was arrested and charged with some minor offence at a soccer game. When it got to court the Magistrate took into account it was his first offence and his background etc but I remember seemed more concerned about how it would affect his joining the RAF. I remember he asked the solicitor and for some reason the arresting officer for their thoughts on what affect a criminal record would have on him joining. He then found him guilty, gave him some strong words of "advice" and awarded an absolute discharge, along with a stern warning that the RAF did not need to know as he would not have a criminal record. Good man!!

[ArthurWankspittle]

...... I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to burn the place down or something like that.

Having slept on it, I am now more worried that this is the only path Tom has left - a scorched earth policy. (Though I see him more as Big Vern than any military commander.)

[AndyPandy]

I actually think they'll go for a Conditional Discharge on the condition he stays away from Fearn Chase, which he will immediately break.

A conditional discharge is a sentence passed by a court whereby the defendant is not punished, provided they comply with certain conditions. After these conditions are met, the discharge becomes absolute. If the conditions are not met, the defendant is re-sentenced.

I think it'll end up like Ebert (who couldn't keep away from his former home) and eventually he'll be imprisioned for it - a martyr to the cause / core !