Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

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Bungle
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Bungle »

hucknallred wrote:
Bungle wrote:
His and Sue's bungalow that was almost paid for and where they had lived for many years has gone.
Have to pull you up on that one. It was no nearer being paid off than it was in 1988 whilst they were still in possession of it.

Here's one to mull over, if one of his helpers had gone to him & said.

"Your home is in danger of repossession, but I can help. All you need to do is pay around £30 a week & you're guaranteed to stay in your bungalow whilst you fight the injustice through the courts."

TH "£30, that sounds good, who do I pay it to?"

Helper "Bradford & Bingley, it's the interest on your Mortgage"
What I meant to say was that he had just about come to the end of his mortgage term. Because there was no endowment in place (and he clearly knew that there wasn't one) he was going to have to make some serious choices, the most obvious one being to sell the bungalow. Plenty of people nearing retirement move to smaller properties. Tom and Sue were no different.

In his case, the property was worth around £160k (significantly less by the time the freetards had trashed the place).
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by littleFred »

hucknallred wrote:... not a penny of the capital had been paid off ...
Well, to be horribly picky, yes it had. Not merely a penny, but something like £100, from the proceeds of the cancelled endowment policy.

[EDIT: Oops, other folk type faster than me.]
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by AndyPandy »

I due to the recession and my business taking a nose dive, had to switch to an interest only mortgage, it's due to end in 2018 with no possibility of paying the capital outstanding.

The lender has been in touch and I've informed them of my plans which are to down size and move to a cheaper area, they are happy with this.My house is now up for sale.

It's not difficult, you take out a mortgage and if your circumstances change and you for whatever reason can't pay off the capital, you deal with it as best you can, you don't stop paying the mortgage and expect to keep the property and I just don't get the mentality of someone that thinks they can!
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by letissier14 »

AndyPandy wrote:I due to the recession and my business taking a nose dive, had to switch to an interest only mortgage, it's due to end in 2018 with no possibility of paying the capital outstanding.

The lender has been in touch and I've informed them of my plans which are to down size and move to a cheaper area, they are happy with this.My house is now up for sale.

It's not difficult, you take out a mortgage and if your circumstances change and you for whatever reason can't pay off the capital, you deal with it as best you can, you don't stop paying the mortgage and expect to keep the property and I just don't get the mentality of someone that thinks they can!
My brother did the same thing. Had £110k interest only mortgage, which finished two years ago. He sold it and with the equity bought a new house outright.
I don't take sides, I read all the facts and then come to my own conclusions
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by letissier14 »

Just seen this posted on facebook

Image
I don't take sides, I read all the facts and then come to my own conclusions
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Kay Powell »

hucknallred wrote:
Kay Powell wrote:Hucknallred, I disagree. The value of the property had increased to about £160k, and Tom only had to come up with about £43k and it would have been his.
Hey it's fine to disagree, but the comment said it was almost paid off. It wasn't, not a penny of the capital had been paid off, the current market value is irrelevant.

It's been discussed ad nauseum on here, but UK interest rates were at 0.5% (now 0.25%) for years, his interest payments would have literally been a fraction of what they were at the outset, they could have overpaid which would have reduced the capital automatically, or did what myself & may others did (I also took out a mortgage in 1988), which was not to reduce the repayments when the rates dropped & chip away at the capital, or to remortgage entirely.

Sadly they didn't, there seems to be a serious lack of financial savvy.
I think that the current market value was extremely relevant. The amount still owing on the property was only about a quarter of the full value of that property. Tom could have been quids in. His property had increased in value by more than inflation; and, has been pointed out, his relatives could have helped him. I also can't see why there couldn't have been another mortgage worked out, for a smaller sum, which he should have been able to pay, given the current low interest rates. Or he could have sold up and moved somewhere cheaper, and no longer owe anything.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by mufc1959 »

letissier14 wrote:
AndyPandy wrote:I due to the recession and my business taking a nose dive, had to switch to an interest only mortgage, it's due to end in 2018 with no possibility of paying the capital outstanding.

The lender has been in touch and I've informed them of my plans which are to down size and move to a cheaper area, they are happy with this.My house is now up for sale.

It's not difficult, you take out a mortgage and if your circumstances change and you for whatever reason can't pay off the capital, you deal with it as best you can, you don't stop paying the mortgage and expect to keep the property and I just don't get the mentality of someone that thinks they can!
My brother did the same thing. Had £110k interest only mortgage, which finished two years ago. He sold it and with the equity bought a new house outright.
The problems we're finding at work is where people borrowed on interest-only, maybe had a pension or an ISA they intended to use to pay off their mortgage but for whatever reason didn't maintain the investment.

The selling standards in place before 2004 - and definitely before the FCA Mortgage Market Review in 2014 - were very different. And around 2005-2007 when lenders (including my employers) were offering self-cert mortgages, people borrowed far more than they should have done, interest-only, with no thought of how they'd pay it back other than anticipating that their house would be worth three times as much as they owed once the mortgage reached the end of its term. The idea that prices would fall and then only recover slightly never occurred to them - despite the fact that they'd all lived through the property boom/crash of the late 80s/early 90s.

Anyway, relying on the property going up in value is all very well if the loan-to-value ratio is relatively small, but if there's no much equity, people are in trouble.

We have a lot of borrowers coming to the end of their interest-only mortgages that we're now having to manage. We have the 25 or 30 year terms where the endowment is long-gone or has drastically under-performed (in which case the endowment provider will have issued warnings years ago about the need to do something about it). If it's still the original amount borrowed (i.e no further advances), these borrowers should have enough equity to buy somewhere outright.

But we also have the mortgages taken out ten years ago when lending standards were much more relaxed, where the borrower simply lied about having a repayment vehicle. These were generally middle-aged, self-employed borrowers who might have had past credit problems, or were borrowing to consolidate other debts. Usually a high loan-to-value ratio.

While we don't want thousands of (mostly) elderly people losing their homes, at the same time we're not social landlords and so we can't extend the mortgage term for more than a year or so - and we'll only agree to it if the borrowers show they're taking steps to sell the property or raise a mortgage somewhere else.

But yeah, if Tom hadn't swallowed the woo pill, he'd have been able to sell and kept about £100K equity to buy somewhere else, or if he'd wanted to stay in the property, taken out a lifetime equity release mortgage (where no payments are due, interest is rolled up and the loan + interest are paid off when the last of the borrowers dies or goes into nursing care.)
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Pox »

Kay Powell wrote:
The amount still owing on the property was only about a quarter of the full value of that property. Tom could have been quids in. His property had increased in value by more than inflation; and, has been pointed out, his relatives could have helped him. I also can't see why there couldn't have been another mortgage worked out, for a smaller sum, which he should have been able to pay, given the current low interest rates. Or he could have sold up and moved somewhere cheaper, and no longer owe anything.
These were possible solutions put forward by many others on here and on GOODF.
Some on GOODF who made these suggestions were called trolls,shills etc. Some left the GOODF forum as a result.

It would appear that Tom chose to ignore these possible solutions, even one of a fund me campaign.
I guess he thought he knew better?
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Bungle »

mufc1959 wrote:
The problems we're finding at work is where people borrowed on interest-only, maybe had a pension or an ISA they intended to use to pay off their mortgage but for whatever reason didn't maintain the investment.

The selling standards in place before 2004 - and definitely before the FCA Mortgage Market Review in 2014 - were very different. And around 2005-2007 when lenders (including my employers) were offering self-cert mortgages, people borrowed far more than they should have done, interest-only, with no thought of how they'd pay it back other than anticipating that their house would be worth three times as much as they owed once the mortgage reached the end of its term. The idea that prices would fall and then only recover slightly never occurred to them - despite the fact that they'd all lived through the property boom/crash of the late 80s/early 90s.

Anyway, relying on the property going up in value is all very well if the loan-to-value ratio is relatively small, but if there's no much equity, people are in trouble.

We have a lot of borrowers coming to the end of their interest-only mortgages that we're now having to manage. We have the 25 or 30 year terms where the endowment is long-gone or has drastically under-performed (in which case the endowment provider will have issued warnings years ago about the need to do something about it). If it's still the original amount borrowed (i.e no further advances), these borrowers should have enough equity to buy somewhere outright.

But we also have the mortgages taken out ten years ago when lending standards were much more relaxed, where the borrower simply lied about having a repayment vehicle. These were generally middle-aged, self-employed borrowers who might have had past credit problems, or were borrowing to consolidate other debts. Usually a high loan-to-value ratio.

While we don't want thousands of (mostly) elderly people losing their homes, at the same time we're not social landlords and so we can't extend the mortgage term for more than a year or so - and we'll only agree to it if the borrowers show they're taking steps to sell the property or raise a mortgage somewhere else.

But yeah, if Tom hadn't swallowed the woo pill, he'd have been able to sell and kept about £100K equity to buy somewhere else, or if he'd wanted to stay in the property, taken out a lifetime equity release mortgage (where no payments are due, interest is rolled up and the loan + interest are paid off when the last of the borrowers dies or goes into nursing care.)
EXCELLENT post mufc .

As you have explained, Tom and Sue found themselves in a position that affects many other people. It is not an uncommon situation. He could have sold up and moved elsewhere. His fault lay in believing the freeman woo woo.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by exiledscouser »

The whole question of interest only mortgages is, in my opinion a time-bomb under the seats of major lenders.

What lender in their right mind would lend interest only on an LTV exceeding 75% without identifying whether the borrower had some means to pay it back once the mortgage term had expired? Yet that was and in some cases still appears to be an industry norm.

Or even enquire whether the property is insured as if for example it were to burn down then the lender would be left high and dry. They could pursue the borrower but like as not they'd be skint members who'd have lost everything too.

There was an air of greed and hubris in the financial sector (particularly in mortgages) until the wheels came off in 2007/8 and mufc1959 and his colleagues are at the front of the wave as these products, a trickle now but with tens if not hundreds of thousands to come, hit maturity and the cupboard is bare.

I salute the poster above who recognised his position and took the pragmatic approach to downsize. I assume though that he was fortunate enough to have built up a fair amount of equity beforehand to ease the pain. It serves to demonstrate that we are ultimately responsible for ourselves.

Outside London most property prices have remained fairly static over the years and it is those folk on interest frees who will be up shit creek in a few years time.

Most of the "fringe" lenders with the biggest exposures to liar-loans and hopeless interest only products are actually the big high street names, just hiding behind a different trading arm but all part of the same parent.

Hell, my dog would probably have qualified for a mortgage up until about ten years ago.

It's a question of responsible lending and ethics which, I'm sad to say through empiric experience, most of the so called high street lending gang think is a county east of London. Even now after the disasters which have led to austerity.

Unscrupulous lenders with performance sales targets to meet in cahoots with bent introducers prepared to "tailor" applications to fit lending criteria. They are still there - I encounter examples about once a quarter even now.

When someone of influence finally asks the question: well, Mr Halifax, what due diligence DID you do when assessing whether this lender could repay the Interest only loan you made to him - some arses will be twitching in the boardrooms.

After all the FCA likes to preen itself about how it's "tamed" the shameful 1,000%+ Apr payday loan companies in forcing them to give (at least some) cognisance to a borrower's ability to pay back.

In my humble it's the next big thing to hit the financial sector since PPI and an order of magnitude bigger. Much bigger.

I'm not writing our Tom a get out of jail free card here. He's a big boy and a fool to boot and he chose the path to ruin all by himself when less "nuclear" options were readily available.

But to those sold interest only mortgages by lenders who couldn't give two shits about how it might ever be repaid or even ensuring that the property their loan was secured against was insured I say, watch this space.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Footloose52 »

I took out a mortgage of about 75% LTV 17 years ago, part interest only, part repayment. The property has doubled in value in that time and I repaid the loan two years ago, 15 years early. The interest only portin was about 30% of the property value at the time of borrowing though.

The property is outside the South East boom area.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by NYGman »

I have an IO loan on my apartment in manhattan. I have 75% Equity, and 25% debt right now, so feel I am insulated against any fluctuations in pricing. If after the IO term ends, I want to stay, I will just remortgage the IO, and go again. having 75% equity, I have no desire to pay off any more principal, and as time passes, my LTV gets better, due to appreciation. However, I know if the loan came due, I couldn't pay it now. So if I do decide to move, I will sell it, pay of the balance and move. If I decide to stay, I will reup on another IO. As Manhattan RE prices seem to keep going up, my LTV increases without the need to pay down any more principal. So there in my in my situation and market, it is actually beneficial to have an IO. But this is Manhattan, and probably an anomaly. Also I am of working age, to getting another IO when this one lapses, isn't a big deal. I think this is unique to the Manhattan market, but I am guessing the same principal works in other big cities.

However this only makes sense because of my high equity percentage. I think going as lo as 50/50 would still work, but anything higher, and you may be burned by property dips. However, I find no reason to pay down equity, as interest here is deductible, and principal isn't, so I get a good tax benefit from this too.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by exiledscouser »

Here in the good ole UK of A any tax advantages associated with interest on loans particularly mortgages have long since been scrapped, we had MIRAS (sounds like a soviet era spacecraft but more boringly mortgage interest relief at source) now but a distant memory.

In a rising value house market then those on IO, even with high LTVs are somewhat insulated but as and when the bubble bursts or we go through the sine-wave of boom-bust then people who are either naive or blind to reality will get hurt.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by SteveUK »

Does anyone have a link to Crawfords ombudsman decision ?
Is it SteveUK or STEVE: of UK?????
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Bungle »

Tom's busy preparing for his groundbreaking hearing next week . This is his latest posting on EFOB


Tom Crawford
September 5 at 9:43am
Hi all,
All this week I am going to dedicate my posts solely about solicitors, barristers and judges, this is a buildup to my court case on the 13th of this month, it will give you an insight into the monster that we all have to deal with in the legal profession.

So my first post will be an excellent book and YouTube videos about the same subject; Woe Unto You Lawyers by Fred Rodell
Tom
http://www.constitution.org/…/rode…/woe ... awyers.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYnTSyOrtQM
Last edited by Bungle on Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by Bungle »

He also now recommending this for bedtime reading.

His forthcoming trial may turn out to be interesting after all.


https://www.bookofthelaw.org/index.php/ ... -your-law/
TUCO said to me:
“I envy you for the job that you do in helping advise people. If I could choose an occupation, this is what I would like to do. Much of the advice that I pass onto people is heavily influenced by your posts”.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by notorial dissent »

Why is the old fool linking to a site having to do with US Constitutional law, a badly written site in the bargain? There is exactly NOTHING there that applies to his situation.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by SteveUK »

notorial dissent wrote:Why is the old fool linking to a site having to do with US Constitutional law, a badly written site in the bargain? There is exactly NOTHING there that applies to his situation.
I have a small suspicion it's because he's an absolute crackpot.

I also can't view his hilarious FB drivel as of today , the paranoid old codger must've blocked me. And to think I used to get 20p per comment!
Is it SteveUK or STEVE: of UK?????
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by aesmith »

Bungle wrote:Tom's busy preparing for his groundbreaking hearing next week . This is his latest posting on EFOB
What's EFOB if you don't mind me asking? I assume not Estimated Fuel On Board in this context.
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Re: Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

Post by SteveUK »

Eviction the fraud of the bank (Facebook) a little coven of nutjobbeey
Is it SteveUK or STEVE: of UK?????