Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

[NYGman]

Is it too much to hope that the judge here may issue a ruling that point by point debunks TC and co's legal theories, and clearly explains why Tom is no longer the legal owner, and therefore has no right to be in his former home? Although having said that, Godsmark tried and failed when he attempted it, perhaps as this is his last bite at the apple (Hopefully) it may finally sink in. Probably wishful thinking, and any court opinion will be read as a win for time, with Ceylon telling us 16 times, why TC won, even though he is now in custody...

[ArthurWankspittle]

Is it too much to hope that the judge here may issue a ruling that point by point debunks TC and co's legal theories, and clearly explains why Tom is no longer the legal owner, and therefore has no right to be in his former home?

No because the District Judge sitting in this case isn't going to bother wasting his time and it's already been done by Godsmark. He will likely give it reference as background but isn't going to spend timing detailing again why Tom is wrong.

[NYGman]

Figured as much...

[ArthurWankspittle]

A few more comments have appeared on the Post article. (Yeah right those are genuine )
Two points: No mention of Ceylon. Tom says he's homeless. Is that for public consumption/sympathy because he doesn't want both his supporters/B&B/UKAR to find out he's in Sue's mum's house? Would love to know if he gave his address as NFA when called by the court.

[Bones]

You have to laugh that Colon was the star witness. After all, it was Colon that made that informative video in which he explained what an Endowment mortgage was and how it worked. Hence it proved that Popa Crawfraud had got it all wrong and there was never any fraud.

Also it is interesting that Colon has not mentioned being the star witness on GOODF or anything about the hearing for that matter.

People might notice that Tommy has back tracked on matters now - such as the mortgage not being repaid in full after all and that there was a warrant presented as evidence at the rooftop 6 hearing after.

If I was Tom, I would stop posting on social media, the more he does the more he slips up and reveals the truth

[Bones]

A few more comments have appeared on the Post article. (Yeah right those are genuine )
Two points: No mention of Ceylon. Tom says he's homeless. Is that for public consumption/sympathy because he doesn't want both his supporters/B&B/UKAR to find out he's in Sue's mum's house? Would love to know if he gave his address as NFA when called by the court.

Homeless ?

Such a professional victim... So you are sleeping under a card board box now are you Tommy and eating out of bins and soup kitchens. Pull the other one Crawfraud, it plays jingle bells - Looking at Mamma Crawfraud, it is clear she has not been missing out on any meals

[Hercule Parrot]

A two week wait for the verdict in a criminal case? I can't say I've heard of that before.

If it's a jury trial then that would be odd, but if it's not before a jury and the judge wants some time to think about things it can happen.

Interesting. Like longdog I've never heard of a criminal case being adjourned after hearing all the evidence, and I'm doubtful that this option is available to a magistrates court (or district judge). Post-conviction adjournment to consider sentence, to obtain reports, is of course ordinary. Oddly, the local paper says that judgement was reserved, so it's a mystery to me.

[Hercule Parrot]

I suppose I should pipe up here as a dissenting voice. While I'm far from certain that he'll be found not guilty, I do think that is more likely than not what will happen. That has nothing to do with my own opinion on Tom's actions, but that the defence that is open to him (that he honestly believed that he still owned the property) may be difficult to disprove.

I would not say you are wrong, because s5 Criminal Damage Act does provide an defence to intent based upon belief of entitlement/consent/ownership, and it is "immaterial whether a belief is justified or not if it is honestly held"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/48/section/5

However, this shield has some substantial holes. Firstly the judge is the trier of fact, and might simply decide that although TC proclaims a sincere belief in ownership of Castle Crawford, this is not an honestly held belief.

Also, even if TC persuades the judge that the repo should not have happened, this wouldn't undo the fact that the lender still had a proprietary interest in the house (and TC could not plausibly argue a belief that he had their consent).
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/criminal_damage/#a06

So while it is possible that a DJ might decide to let TC walk on this, that DJ would surely understand that the acquittal would be crowed as a judicial vindication of TC's claims and would lead to further transgressions. And so I wonder if the unusual adjournment is for the purpose of researching a combined acquittal and restraining order outcome.

[TheNewSaint]

(Warning: non-UK layperson legal analysis forthcoming)

Furthermore, those defenses include many qualifiers demanding reasonableness, such as "in order to protect property belonging to himself" and "the means of protection would be reasonable having regard to all the circumstances."

The circumstances here were "Tom was mad about losing his house and was breaking things to be a prat."

There's no reasonable spin you could put on his actions. He wasn't destroying property in the mistaken belief it was serving a greater good. People with a sincere belief that they own a home don't wreck their own tile for no reason. As such, I don't think the judge will accept such a defense.

[Burnaby49]

A two week wait for the verdict in a criminal case? I can't say I've heard of that before.

If it's a jury trial then that would be odd, but if it's not before a jury and the judge wants some time to think about things it can happen.

Interesting. Like longdog I've never heard of a criminal case being adjourned after hearing all the evidence, and I'm doubtful that this option is available to a magistrates court (or district judge). Post-conviction adjournment to consider sentence, to obtain reports, is of course ordinary. Oddly, the local paper says that judgement was reserved, so it's a mystery to me.

Happens all the time here in Canada. At least in Vancouver. Jury trials require an immediate decision. At least as immediate as the jury can make them given deliberations. However in every judge-only criminal trial I've attended, and these cover income tax evasion and impersonating police officers, the judges have withheld the decision until they could review the case and write up the reasons for judgment. Michael Millar's tax evasion and counseling fraud trial ended in July and the decision hasn't been released yet.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10834

[AndyPandy]

YAWN.... More illiterate nonsense, you'd think if you were putting out a notice you'd actually take the trouble to check spelling and grammar ( yes, Amanda you do spell grammar with an 'a' not an 'e' !!

Coral Melissa Penn
have been asked to convey the following message : The Crawford family...
Notice to whom it may concern
For a considerable time the Crawford family & others have been under constant attack from a nest pit of vipers in the way of cyber bullying by a barage of personal insults and lies, the extent of this harrasment has gone to criminal lenghts.

The fraudulant activitys that has been now revealed with regards to the paperwork involving the house etc in Court on the 13th Sept 2016 and the matter concerning the non existant warrant as proved beyond reasonable doubt which in the Crown court is of a much higher standard than the civil as evidented in the Crown court Roof top 6 + 1 trial last January and entered into the Magistrates Court on on Tues 13th Sept 2016.

The family wish it to be known that they are now in the position to instigate proceedings further to the iminant hearing involving the stalker who the family have already in Court, other trolls involved on social media etc evidence of which has now been amounted over a considerable period of time and following the recent meeting with Paddy Tipping Police & Crime commissioner for Nottinghamshire who is well aware of the situation at hand.
The family intend to start the proceedings against 2 of the cyber bullies others will follow who have been some of the most prevelant over the time. We thank you once again for all your support and will of course update you when able to.

Look at the comments left on the Nottingham Post, the people of Nottingham know the truth, you've all been lied to and led through the nose by the Crawford clan and unfortunately, Coral as you're their biggest supporter that makes you the biggest victim of the deception they've built around themselves.

[Bones]

Wonder why Coral was asked to post that ? It is not as if Amanda and Tom are unable to post is it

The fraudulant activitys that has been now revealed with regards to the paperwork involving the house etc in Court on the 13th Sept 2016 and the matter concerning the non existant warrant as proved beyond reasonable doubt

Do you mean this non existant warrant Coral ?

[Skeleton]

Tom has done this in the past, pronounced another stunning victory then posted threats of legal action against anyone who disagrees with him or against anyone who points out what actually went on in court. Same as the "Public" Gallery in the court, come along by all means but you better be their to support Tom, no one else is welcome. He wants one side of the story to come out, his side, Tom clearly hates it when he is not in control.

Let him do it. But he better be prepared for the backlash, Amanda and Tom have both posted some pretty nasty and vile things in the past.

Also look at just one of the replies to that post, and they will get worse, they always do.

Scum..Name and Shame them Amanda.

They just don't get it works both ways.

As for

The fraudulant activitys that has been now revealed with regards to the paperwork involving the house etc in Court on the 13th Sept 2016 and the matter concerning the non existant warrant as proved beyond reasonable doubt which in the Crown court is of a much higher standard than the civil as evidented in the Crown court Roof top 6 + 1 trial last January and entered into the Magistrates Court on on Tues 13th Sept 2016.

WTF are they trying to say? Seriously I have no idea, They entered a non existent warrant into the Magistrates Court. How do you do that then?

[Bones]

Tom has done this in the past, pronounced another stunning victory then posted threats of legal action against anyone who disagrees with him or against anyone who points out what actually went on in court. Same as the "Public" Gallery in the court, come along by all means but you better be their to support Tom, no one else is welcome. He wants one side of the story to come out, his side, Tom clearly hates it when he is not in control.

Let him do it. But he better be prepared for the backlash, Amanda and Tom have both posted some pretty nasty and vile things in the past.

The Crawfraud family do this each time they tell people what happened and then other sources tell another story. Just like a baby throwing the toys out of the pram for not getting their own way

Such as one poster saying the judge threatend to kick everyone out and yet Tom says how hippy relaxed it all was. Tom says the judge said this and agreed with that yet the Nottingham Post confirm the judge told him that the hearing had nothing to do with B&B

You know Tom is desperate if he has to rely upon Colon as a star witness

[#six]

YAWN.... More illiterate nonsense, you'd think if you were putting out a notice you'd actually take the trouble to check spelling and grammar ( yes, Amanda you do spell grammar with an 'a' not an 'e' !!

Coral Melissa Penn
have been asked to convey the following message : The Crawford family...
Notice to whom it may concern
For a considerable time the Crawford family & others have been under constant attack from a nest pit of vipers in the way of cyber bullying by a barage of personal insults and lies, the extent of this harrasment has gone to criminal lenghts.

The fraudulant activitys that has been now revealed with regards to the paperwork involving the house etc in Court on the 13th Sept 2016 and the matter concerning the non existant warrant as proved beyond reasonable doubt which in the Crown court is of a much higher standard than the civil as evidented in the Crown court Roof top 6 + 1 trial last January and entered into the Magistrates Court on on Tues 13th Sept 2016.

The family wish it to be known that they are now in the position to instigate proceedings further to the iminant hearing involving the stalker who the family have already in Court, other trolls involved on social media etc evidence of which has now been amounted over a considerable period of time and following the recent meeting with Paddy Tipping Police & Crime commissioner for Nottinghamshire who is well aware of the situation at hand.
The family intend to start the proceedings against 2 of the cyber bullies others will follow who have been some of the most prevelant over the time. We thank you once again for all your support and will of course update you when able to.

Look at the comments left on the Nottingham Post, the people of Nottingham know the truth, you've all been lied to and led through the nose by the Crawford clan and unfortunately, Coral as you're their biggest supporter that makes you the biggest victim of the deception they've built around themselves.

More empty threats.

I've not seen a single item online that could be considered cyber bullying. Telling someone that they are wrong, deluded, etc does not amount to anything. Posting addresses online is perhaps the closest that I have seen and the only ones doing that have been the Crawford supporters. I can see this is going to have as much success in court as Tom has already had.

[doublelong]

Agreed there is a big void between fact based constructive criticism and cyber bullying. Examples would be Thnderf00t aka Phil Mansion and feminism (just put his name into youtube) and they even took it to the UN. Unless it is a new ploy by his crack legal team, get a troll or two into court and then ask to see the warrant.

[AndyPandy]

And exactly how does a Vexatious Litigant commence proceedings or is it like the cancelled endowment policy and non existent warrant have the Crawfords conveniently forgotten about that as well!!

[Bones]

I think it is very telling that Amanda and through her trained voice piece accuse people of telling lies but are unable to say what those lies are.

Whereas, the lies posted by Amanda and co have been posted here, discussed freely and proven with evidence (usually the crawfords own youtube videos) to be lies.

[rumpelstilzchen]

The family wish it to be known that they are now in the position to instigate proceedings further to the iminant hearing involving the stalker who the family have already in Court, other trolls involved on social media etc evidence of which has now been amounted over a considerable period of time and following the recent meeting with Paddy Tipping Police & Crime commissioner for Nottinghamshire who is well aware of the situation at hand.
The family intend to start the proceedings against 2 of the cyber bullies others will follow who have been some of the most prevelant over the time. We thank you once again for all your support and will of course update you when able to.

Just more waffle. Note they do not say they have started, they just say they are now in the position and intend to. It is only when they actually do anything about it, instead of issuing empty threats, will I believe it.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Do you mean this non existant warrant Coral ?

Yeah. That's the warrant that does not exist