Mark "Ceylon" Haining, Goofy GOODFer

[ArthurWankspittle]

Aloe Vera And Why Egyptians Called It The “Plant Of Immortal

Don't know about anyone else but I can't say I've noticed the place being full of immortal Egyptians.

Meet the Silver That DESTROYS 650 Different Pathogens and HEALS Inflammation in 72 Hours

Oh please OD on Colloidal Silver Ceylon, you could be a Smurf. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria )

[NYGman]

Aloe Vera And Why Egyptians Called It The “Plant Of Immortal

Don't know about anyone else but I can't say I've noticed the place being full of immortal Egyptians.

I was thinking the exact same thing

[Bones]

BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!1!!!!

Colon caught telling lies again SHOCKER !!!1!!!!

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... DiKv1wlejA

Colon desperate for attention has claimed that a hacker was paid to take down GOODF and other consumer websites.

Now we all know that no one would pay to take down GOODF... For entertainment value and the additional debt it causes it is second too none.

Anyway, the hacker was not paid to take done GOODF, they were only paid to take done the Consumer Action Group

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... razer-mann

James Frazer-Mann, 35, was tracked down by the FBI after he paid American hackers to launch an attack on the Consumer Action Group (CAG) website.

The court was told that Frazer-Mann contacted hackers after being criticised on the CAG website, a UK forum for the discussion of consumer rights.

No mention of GOODF

[JimUk1]

BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!1!!!!

Colon caught telling lies again SHOCKER !!!1!!!!

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... DiKv1wlejA

Colon desperate for attention has claimed that a hacker was paid to take down GOODF and other consumer websites.

Now we all know that no one would pay to take down GOODF... For entertainment value and the additional debt it causes it is second too none.

Anyway, the hacker was not paid to take done GOODF, they were only paid to take done the Consumer Action Group

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... razer-mann

James Frazer-Mann, 35, was tracked down by the FBI after he paid American hackers to launch an attack on the Consumer Action Group (CAG) website.

The court was told that Frazer-Mann contacted hackers after being criticised on the CAG website, a UK forum for the discussion of consumer rights.

No mention of GOODF

Why would anyone want to take down a site that creates money for the judicial system, the banking sector and hceo.

[Pox]

BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!1!!!!

Colon caught telling lies again SHOCKER !!!1!!!!

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... DiKv1wlejA

Colon desperate for attention has claimed that a hacker was paid to take down GOODF and other consumer websites.

Now we all know that no one would pay to take down GOODF... For entertainment value and the additional debt it causes it is second too none.

Anyway, the hacker was not paid to take done GOODF, they were only paid to take done the Consumer Action Group

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... razer-mann

James Frazer-Mann, 35, was tracked down by the FBI after he paid American hackers to launch an attack on the Consumer Action Group (CAG) website.

The court was told that Frazer-Mann contacted hackers after being criticised on the CAG website, a UK forum for the discussion of consumer rights.

No mention of GOODF

Reading the Guardian article -
Frazer-Mann 'used a tactic that typically involves flooding the target with superfluous requests in an attempt to overload their systems'.

How ironic - a bit like Haining with his constant FOI requests!

[notorial dissent]

Would be more newsworthy in the unlikely event that Colon was caught telling the truth about something, has that even happened in memory? Is he capable?

[TheNewSaint]

Meet the Silver That DESTROYS 650 Different Pathogens and HEALS Inflammation in 72 Hours

Oh please OD on Colloidal Silver Ceylon, you could be a Smurf. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria )

Of all the stupid ideas that persist in the alternative cure/FMOTL world, collodial silver may be the worst. Most of these phony cures are useless and expensive, but mostly harmless. This stuff will make you a circus freak for life. It's unbelievable that there's any market for this when photographs of its horrific effects are easy to find.

[SoLongCeylon]

Meet the Silver That DESTROYS 650 Different Pathogens and HEALS Inflammation in 72 Hours

Oh please OD on Colloidal Silver Ceylon, you could be a Smurf. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria )

Of all the stupid ideas that persist in the alternative cure/FMOTL world, collodial silver may be the worst. Most of these phony cures are useless and expensive, but mostly harmless. This stuff will make you a circus freak for life. It's unbelievable that there's any market for this when photographs of its horrific effects are easy to find.

Haining's contribution to Goodf seems to be limited to posting videos relating to unproven health foods and illness cures. Occasionally he manipulates Mickey Summers into making a video but now Ye Olde Fool Crawford has virtually run out of stupidty, Haining is showing his lack of depth.

Goodf is now a pond of omebas - an example of which today is this wonderful idea that Goodf should buy up debt at a discount rather than let the normal debt collectors buy the debt. They could then make a lot of money.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... D23QH1wHy0

Now that is an example of a machine eating itself.

[aesmith]

... This stuff will make you a circus freak for life. ...

Meaning no particularly noticeable effect on Ceylon?

[TheNewSaint]

Goodf is now a pond of omebas - an example of which today is this wonderful idea that Goodf should buy up debt at a discount rather than let the normal debt collectors buy the debt. They could then make a lot of money.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... D23QH1wHy0

Now that is an example of a machine eating itself.

I see positive things in that post. Offering to buy a debt implicitly acknowledges the validity of the debt. And, the poster has figured out that creditors may be willing to settle a debt for less than face value. If they think that through, they will realize that they're better off working with creditors to settle debts rather than resorting to FMOTL crap.

Naturally, it attracted this reply:

I really couldn't believe what I was reading in the posts on this thread. For the length of time that some of you have been on GOODF I am truly surprised that you would even bring this subject up as if what we do here was unlawful.

The three letters are not being done for fun, nor to cheat anyone, they are being done to cover everyone from those who have no business nor right to your money no matter what. It's almost as bad as having this damned IVA Debt advert at the top of the forum's pages.

Hey! Buck up chaps, you're all talking like a lot of losers. Can it be that you think that GOODF is dead or dying? Because it sounds like it to me. Nothing personal here, but it's not good publicity to be talking capitulation especially as since there is no money, there can be no debt. WAKE UP!

And yes, there is an ad for IVA debt settlement. Combined with the help line discussed here previously, it looks like GOODF is shifting towards offering legit advice. And some of its members don't like that.

[Firthy2002]

It would appear someone behind the scenes has been hit with a dose of reality.
Although I thought Jon had supposedly stepped away.

[notorial dissent]

Oh please OD on Colloidal Silver Ceylon, you could be a Smurf. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria )

Of all the stupid ideas that persist in the alternative cure/FMOTL world, collodial silver may be the worst. Most of these phony cures are useless and expensive, but mostly harmless. This stuff will make you a circus freak for life. It's unbelievable that there's any market for this when photographs of its horrific effects are easy to find.

Haining's contribution to Goodf seems to be limited to posting videos relating to unproven health foods and illness cures. Occasionally he manipulates Mickey Summers into making a video but now Ye Olde Fool Crawford has virtually run out of stupidty, Haining is showing his lack of depth.

Goodf is now a pond of omebas - an example of which today is this wonderful idea that Goodf should buy up debt at a discount rather than let the normal debt collectors buy the debt. They could then make a lot of money.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... D23QH1wHy0

Now that is an example of a machine eating itself.

Only fly in the ointment, or at least the most noticeable, wouldn't they have to like actually have some "real" money to buy up all this debt, and since when is that even likely or possible with this bunch of ragpickers? I mean come on, speaking of fantasies, I'm wondering how think, unproven concept I know, that they are going to pick this debt up.

[letissier14]

And yes, there is an ad for IVA debt settlement. Combined with the help line discussed here previously, it looks like GOODF is shifting towards offering legit advice. And some of its members don't like that.

My take on goodf is that the reason they had so much "success" using the 3 letters, was simply due to the fact that most agreements they were dealing with at the time were pre 6th April 2007 and many were found to be unenforceable in law. Added to that that many debt collection companies decided to write off many debts because it would have been to costly to chase the debts and with no guarantee of getting anything in return.

The debt collection companies were also pretty lazy and often shot themselves in the foot by the way they behaved, lying and harassing people, many of who were genuine and wanted to pay their debts back (I know, I was one of them - and that is how I found goodf)

The trouble for goodf now, is that most credit agreements are pretty solid and therefore less and less people joining goodf have any pre 2007 debts. Added to that the recent evictions that goodf have tried to help,have all failed miserably and people are starting to realise the nonsense that Ceylon promotes. Also the fact that Jon seems to be out of the picture, Ceylon has a free hand and the site is becoming more of a conspiracy site, rather than helping people with debt problems.

The only way I can see them making any money these days is through advertising legitimate debt help companies and earn a commission by recommending them, hence why they have started to say that they know some people are scared of using the 3 letters and understand they might need to speak to a professional company.

One final point, I have to say that the debt collection companies have a lot to answer for in the rise of sites like goodf, due to the appalling way they have behaved and the dubious tactics they used to collect debt.

[wanglepin]

One final point, I have to say that the debt collection companies have a lot to answer for in the rise of sites like goodf, due to the appalling way they have behaved and the dubious tactics they used to collect debt.

I don't doubt that some debt collectors tell lies and used scare tactics. But could you give a few examples of these dubious tactics? And could you show me where in Goofsville they have made their members aware of the dubious tactics you mention.

[TheNewSaint]

My take on goodf is that the reason they had so much "success" using the 3 letters, was simply due to the fact that most agreements they were dealing with at the time were pre 6th April 2007 and many were found to be unenforceable in law. Added to that that many debt collection companies decided to write off many debts because it would have been to costly to chase the debts and with no guarantee of getting anything in return.

The debt collection companies were also pretty lazy and often shot themselves in the foot by the way they behaved, lying and harassing people, many of who were genuine and wanted to pay their debts back (I know, I was one of them - and that is how I found goodf)

The trouble for goodf now, is that most credit agreements are pretty solid and therefore less and less people joining goodf have any pre 2007 debts. Added to that the recent evictions that goodf have tried to help,have all failed miserably and people are starting to realise the nonsense that Ceylon promotes. Also the fact that Jon seems to be out of the picture, Ceylon has a free hand and the site is becoming more of a conspiracy site, rather than helping people with debt problems.

The only way I can see them making any money these days is through advertising legitimate debt help companies and earn a commission by recommending them, hence why they have started to say that they know some people are scared of using the 3 letters and understand they might need to speak to a professional company.

One final point, I have to say that the debt collection companies have a lot to answer for in the rise of sites like goodf, due to the appalling way they have behaved and the dubious tactics they used to collect debt.

This is an excellent analysis. I would add only one other factor: that the "3 letters" technique is certainly known to debt collection companies by now, and they have procedures for responding to it. (This forum has seen examples of responses to the effect of "you seem to be using a template downloaded from the Internet.") Like many FMOTL theories, it may have worked for awhile, or at least stalled collection, until companies figured out how to deal with them.

[arayder]

I found interesting the string of conversation in which the GOODers argue about whether or not the 3 letter strategy is effective. it seems there is trouble in GOODFerville.

These happenings supports my theory that movements like sovcit/detax/freeman/GOODF/TFL have life cycles during which reality and disappointment follow initial hopeful excitement.

During the initial phase hopes are high and any questioning of theory is shouted down. Any delay in lowering the hammer on the theory's practitioners is considered a win. If prosecutors or banks decide the practitioner's debt isn't worth pursuing or that the crime committed is inconsequential endless victory laps ensue.

But eventually the basic fallacy of the theory becomes evident and as true believers begin to fall the movement dies.

[TheNewSaint]

I think GOODF is going through a schism. It's between those who want to get out of debt free, and those who just want to get out of debt. The site seems to be an odd mix of conspiracy die-hards promoting stupid FMOTL theories, and ordinary people who wandered in seeking legit debt management advice. And the former don't seem to be converting the latter. There are two recent examples of this: Amanda (on the "BTBATB - worse than GOODF" thread) and terrydebtfree (on the "GOODF's new help line" thread):

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11229&p=236537#p236537

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11254

[arayder]

I think GOODF is going through a schism. It's between those who want to get out of debt free, and those who just want to get out of debt. The site seems to be an odd mix of conspiracy die-hards promoting stupid FMOTL theories, and ordinary people who wandered in seeking legit debt management advice. And the former don't seem to be converting the latter.

It seems to me that the "freedom movements" have a hard core of believers who hold that society's conventions are fantasy. The GOODF version of this phenomena dismisses mortgages, credit cards and loans as smoke and mirrors.

This idea that something they don't like isn't real seems common in the core beliefs of detaxing, freemanism and sovcit philosophy as well as GOODFism.

No one would argue that individuals don't deserve a fair, level playing field when dealing with businesses, banks, courts and cops. But pretending that none of society's rules regarding debt, taxes are real is just plain childish.

[NYGman]

the whole issue is the name and concept of the site. You can get out of debt, but it will never be Free. They can be Free Get Out of Debt Advice, or Get out of Debt, as cheaply as possible, but the Free part will continue to cause a problem.

You may be able to work out a forgiveness of debt, you may be able to reduce interest charges, or remove penalties. You may get an interest free payment plan, you may have to declare bankruptcy, and reorganize. However none of these solutions will be "Free." There is no right to Free money, to forgiveness of debt, or to skirt financial obligations you may have. It is also morally bankrupt to knowingly get in to debt without any intention of paying. GOOFY and groups like them, are really just a way for morally challenged people to get together, and figure out more creative ways to tell their debt collector, they are not paying. Until they change the premise of the fund, and remove "Free" they are never really going to be in a position to actually help real honest people, who have fallen on hard times. They will continue to spew pseudo legal theories on why a debt is invalid, despite the fact you have obviously benefited from the relationship, in the form of Credit, Loans, mortgages, etc....

[aesmith]

I saw a comment from Ceylon that the famous three letter's weren't appropriate if you own a house. That must surely be an admission that they don't work as claimed.