Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

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Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Bungle » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:13 am

The following is a fairly recent (September 2015) decision from the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regarding mortgage arrears. The person making the complaint seems to have been bitten by the freeman woo woo bug.


complaint

Mr C has complained about the way in which Amber Homeloans Limited has dealt with his mortgage account.

background

Mr C has a mortgage taken out with Amber in 2007. Unfortunately the mortgage has been in arrears for some time. Since June 2010 Mr C has received Department of Work & Pensions benefits, but the DWP contribution to the mortgage interest doesn’t cover the full contractual payment. Arrears have continued to accumulate and are now around £5,000.

In 2014 Amber was granted a possession order. Mr C is unhappy about this. He also says that Amber has harassed him and that it has acted unlawfully.

The adjudicator didn’t recommend the complaint should be upheld. She explained to Mr C that the Financial Ombudsman Service can’t overturn a court order. She wasn’t persuaded Amber had harassed Mr C. Amber had tried to contact him to discuss the arrears, but was unable to do so.

Mr C didn’t accept the adjudicator’s findings. I now have to make a final decision on this case.

my findings

I’ve considered all the available evidence and arguments to decide what’s fair and reasonable in the circumstances of this complaint.

Mr C’s provided a number of documents in support of his complaint. I’ve also seen the documents he sent to the court. Many of these documents refer to American or Irish laws and cases which don’t apply in England & Wales. Mr C has also referred to ancient charters and statutes that have no legal effect today. I also see that Mr C has tried to pay his mortgage using a promissory note which – rightly in my opinion – Amber wouldn’t accept.

The arguments put forward by Mr C are ones that are discussed on “freeman on the land” internet forums. Whilst I don’t doubt Mr C’s beliefs are sincerely held, they have no basis in law, logic or common sense. None of the documents Mr C sent to Amber or the court have resulted in Mr C obtaining any of the legal remedies claimed in those documents. That is not because of bias, corruption or fraud, but because the arguments he has raised have no legal merit.

A court has decided that Amber is entitled to a possession order – after taking into account the documents Mr C provided and the arguments he raised. I don’t have the power to overturn a court order. Mr C would need to go back to court if he wants to overturn it. But I would strongly suggest Mr C takes legal advice from a qualified solicitor before attempting to challenge the possession order.

I’m also not persuaded Amber has harassed Mr C. It has tried to contact Mr C to discuss his account. But Mr C has been reluctant to engage with Amber about this.

Regrettably, the advice Mr C has taken from ‘freeman on the land’ sources has left him in a very vulnerable position. Mr C is now faced with the reality that he might lose his home.

K820x#14

Ref: DRN8532268

Amber has tried to engage with Mr C about the arrears. But if Mr C remains steadfast in his belief that there is no valid mortgage debt, the extent to which Amber can help him resolve his financial difficulties is limited.

I would urge Mr C to take some advice from a legitimate debt advisory service such as StepChange, Money Advice Service, Shelter or Citizens Advice. We can provide Mr C with details of how to contact these organisations, if he would like us to.

my final decision

My decision is that I do not uphold this complaint.

Under the rules of the Financial Ombudsman Service, I’m required to ask Mr C to accept or reject my decision before 14 September 2015.



http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/v ... leID=90374
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Bones » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:20 am

Bungle wrote:The following is a fairly recent (September 2015) decision from the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) regarding mortgage arrears. The person making the complaint seems to have been bitten by the freeman woo woo bug.

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Kay Powell » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:11 am

I particularly like the statement that FOTL beliefs "have no basis in law, logic or common sense."

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Bungle » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:08 pm

Kay Powell wrote:I particularly like the statement that FOTL beliefs "have no basis in law, logic or common sense."


This part is good as well

Mr C’s provided a number of documents in support of his complaint. I’ve also seen the documents he sent to the court. Many of these documents refer to American or Irish laws and cases which don’t apply in England & Wales.


These Freeman types just will not listen.

Over on EFOB, Tom and Amanda keep linking to the Ireland Hub Facebook pages and yet laws in Ireland have no relevance over here at all.
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby notorial dissent » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm

Should have added, "or in reality" .
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Philistine » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:04 pm

Bungle wrote:The following is a fairly recent (September 2015) decision from the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regarding mortgage arrears. The person making the complaint seems to have been bitten by the freeman woo woo bug.


complaint

my findings
.
my final decision




Slightly off-topic question...
Why does the FCA not believe in Proper Case paragraph headings?
I've found that very strange. Is it trendy?

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Hercule Parrot » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:52 pm

Philistine wrote:
complaint

my findings
.
my final decision

Slightly off-topic question...
Why does the FCA not believe in Proper Case paragraph headings?
I've found that very strange. Is it trendy?

I find that the Ombudsman decisions are often phrased in a folksy, informal style. Use of contractions like he's or they'll , which would normally be avoided in an official / legal text. Probably trying to project a more friendly, approachable style. Not my cup of tea.
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Bones » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:35 pm

The letters of the FOS - Adjudicator Views and Ombudsman Decisions are all written in the same style.

Complaint

What is the complaint - What is it the Adjudicator or the Ombudsman has investigated.

Findings

What has the Adjudicator or Ombudsman found as a result of their investigation

Decision

After completing the investigation what the decision is based upon what has been found during the investigation.

It is a writing style that they are trained to use from the the very first day

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Philistine » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:02 pm

Bones wrote:The letters of the FOS - Adjudicator Views and Ombudsman Decisions are all written in the same style.

Complaint

What is the complaint - What is it the Adjudicator or the Ombudsman has investigated.

Findings

What has the Adjudicator or Ombudsman found as a result of their investigation

Decision

After completing the investigation what the decision is based upon what has been found during the investigation.

It is a writing style that they are trained to use from the the very first day


Notice you used proper case? :mrgreen:
Something rubs me the wrong way about an official decision made in such a folksy style.

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby mufc1959 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:15 pm

I'm guessing it's one of these new-fangled "house style" policies that corporate organisations adopt to try to be more approachable. I know in the old days of the Banking Ombudsman, everything that came out of their office was drafted like a legal judgment.

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby ForumWars » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:55 pm

Mr C’s provided a number of documents in support of his complaint. I’ve also seen the documents he sent to the court. Many of these documents refer to American or Irish laws and cases which don’t apply in England & Wales.

If you are going to put forward a quasi-legal argument, the least you should do is make sure that the law you quote applies to the jurisdiction you're in! I notice GOODF has a number of flags on the top for various countries, they also have a section that says it only applies to "England and Wales in the UK" and to click on your flag if you don't live in the UK. Presumably the info on the site is for all those countries, quite easy to get the laws mixed up and that'll be the end of your case if it ever went to court. :(
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby aesmith » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:59 am

Judging by some of the responses that their members receive from banks etc, I thing some of the Goofy template letters make reference to US laws. There's certainly plenty of reference in their discussions to UCC even in UK specific matters. I quick search found more indication, as if this was needed, as to how diligent their legal research is ..

According to this fascinating video during the first couple of minutes it is revealed that all corporations and countries including the UK fall under the grip of the UCC or Universal Commercial Code. No? Then listen to what this woman says on this subject.

Not named in the post but I think that's top UK law expert Neelu Berry, probably suing the UK for £30 billion. (Suspected identity also supported by the Youtube comment "Jeez.....how boring.... this woman is barking mad!")

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby AndyPandy » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:53 pm

aesmith wrote:Judging by some of the responses that their members receive from banks etc, I thing some of the Goofy template letters make reference to US laws. There's certainly plenty of reference in their discussions to UCC even in UK specific matters. I quick search found more indication, as if this was needed, as to how diligent their legal research is ..

According to this fascinating video during the first couple of minutes it is revealed that all corporations and countries including the UK fall under the grip of the UCC or Universal Commercial Code. No? Then listen to what this woman says on this subject.

Not named in the post but I think that's top UK law expert Neelu Berry, probably suing the UK for £30 billion. (Suspected identity also supported by the Youtube comment "Jeez.....how boring.... this woman is barking mad!")


Do you have a link?

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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby aesmith » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:02 pm


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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby longdog » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:31 pm

And we're supposed to take the advice of somebody who thinks it's 'Universal' not 'Uniform'. :shrug:
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby Hercule Parrot » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:29 pm



Yep, that's Neelu Berry. Absolutely mad as a hatstand.
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Re: Ombudsman's decision..Mortgage arrears...Fraud...Promissory Note...Freeman on the Land

Postby morrand » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:26 am

For ease of reference, it's probably best if this thread contained a link to the text of the UCC as it exists in the real world. Or at least, as it says there, the most popular version in use: for a Uniform code, it's not necessarily all that uniformly adopted.
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