The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Moderator: ArthurWankspittle

noblepa
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby noblepa » Mon May 08, 2017 3:14 am

TheNewSaint wrote:I wonder what "paperwork" Amanda thinks she saw that prove Tom paid the mortgage. And, why they spent so much court time on warrants and wet ink seals and other rubbish, when they had documentation that would have easily settled the matter if true.


She may have seen a statement that showed the total interest paid over the life of the loan. IIRC, they claimed at one point to have paid the loan three times over. That is entirely possible with an interest-only loan. That doesn't mean that the loan was paid, however.

I don't know if she is really that stupid, that she doesn't understand what the term "interest-only" means. Maybe she is. From the descriptions I've seen here of the endowment mortgage, it seems like a poor loan product, from the start. Unless the endowment had a guaranteed interest rate that was sufficient to accrue enough capital to repay the loan, there was always a high risk of a significant shortfall when the note came due.

Here in Ohio, back in 1981, I took out a similarly bad loan. It was a negative-amortization loan. Interest rates were so high (up to 17 percent) that few people could afford a mortgage. These loans were written with a very high interest rate but with a payment that was less than the monthly interest. So, every month, you added a little bit more to your loan. The theory was that, over time, the borrower would receive salary increases and could begin paying the full payment. I think I was required to begin full payments within five years.

Fortunately, interest rates came down within a couple of years, and I was able to refinance at a more reasonable rate of (IIRC) 11 percent, fixed rate, conventional mortgage. I was able to afford the payment on that loan. After a few more years, I was able to refinance again, to an even lower rate.

Question: Was the endowment portion of those loans a life insurance policy? IOW, if the borrower died, say, five years into the loan, would the endowment have paid the entire principle balance?

Also, IIRC, Tom got his loan in 1988. Surely interest rates have come down since then. It would seem that he could have refinanced to a conventional repayment loan, at a lower interest rate. He might have been able to get a repayment loan with a monthly payment amount less than he was paying B & B for an interest-only loan.

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10769
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby notorial dissent » Mon May 08, 2017 3:41 am

As to whether Amanda is really that stupid, I'd have to vote yes, I think the entire family is resoundingly brain dead or deficient. I also think that Amanda just out of habit comes up with a lie for whatever occasion she needs one. Since TC admitted to all this in open court the first time around and it was memorialized in the judgment, it isn't like they haven't heard it all before, she just refused to acknowledge reality. And yes, again, I think they are ALL that stupid, on top of being basically and intrinsically dishonest.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

ArthurWankspittle
Slavering Minister of Auto-erotic Insinuation
Posts: 2751
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:35 am
Location: Quatloos Immigration Control

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Mon May 08, 2017 7:10 am

noblepa wrote:Also, IIRC, Tom got his loan in 1988. Surely interest rates have come down since then. It would seem that he could have refinanced to a conventional repayment loan, at a lower interest rate. He might have been able to get a repayment loan with a monthly payment amount less than he was paying B & B for an interest-only loan.
A lot of UK mortgages are variable rate, especially back in the 80s. He had no need to change mortgage, the rate would have moved with bank base rates.
As for Amanda, I too think it is quite likely she hasn't a clue about mortgages and at best is going on the paid three times the amount borrowed bullshit Tom came out with at one point.
Going to Tibet now and deleting Facebook you have my email address

Normal Wisdom
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:28 am
Location: England, UK

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Normal Wisdom » Mon May 08, 2017 8:41 am

There was a time when an endowment mortgage seemed to be a very good product. The return on investments were such that practically speaking there was no question that the loan would not be covered and it was simply a matter of how much extra the investment would generate as a"bonus". Lenders were required to warn borrowers that there was a risk (however slight) that the investment return would not cover the loan amount but in truth many sailed pretty close to the wind and some were downright misleading about expectations. Unfortunately endowments taken out in the late 80's onwards were caught by the collapse in investment returns and borrowers were suddenly faced with a shortfall against their loan. Many lenders had to pay compensation for mis-selling their endowment products.

Tom Crawford may have been mis-sold his endowment mortgage in that he was not made aware of the risks that the return on the endowment policy would not cover his loan. He may have been entitled to compensation as a result. Unfortunately for him this never became an option because he simply chose to stop paying his endowment policy premium after only a few years so there was never a reliable projection of the return on his policy.

I have always believed that the genesis of this whole mess was that Tom and Sue were sold an endowment mortgage without having any idea what it was or how it worked. They stopped paying the endowment policy premium because they thought it was unimportant. It is very hard to believe that after all this time, they have not been made to understand the mistake they made. However it is either that or they belatedly know the truth and simply chose to lie about it in order to maintain the fiction of their story.
Mark Ceylon / Seylon / SriLankerC Haining - "... a dangerous and unpleasant boil on the arse of humanity".

Normal Wisdom
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:28 am
Location: England, UK

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Normal Wisdom » Mon May 08, 2017 8:56 am

noblepa wrote: ...
Question: Was the endowment portion of those loans a life insurance policy? IOW, if the borrower died, say, five years into the loan, would the endowment have paid the entire principle balance?

Also, IIRC, Tom got his loan in 1988. Surely interest rates have come down since then. It would seem that he could have refinanced to a conventional repayment loan, at a lower interest rate. He might have been able to get a repayment loan with a monthly payment amount less than he was paying B & B for an interest-only loan.


The endowment policy was an investment vehicle backed by a life insurance policy so that, as you say, in the event of the death of the policy holder the entire loan would be repaid. Endowment policies were offered by life assurance companies. I believe that Tom and Sue thought that aside from the monthly interest payment made to their lender, the money they were paying to the life assurance company was simply life assurance, a "nice to have" added protection but not directly related to the repayment of their loan. When money got a bit tight a few years after taking out the mortgage, they decided to stop paying the endowment premium without realising what they had done. In one of his videos, Tom explains how the problem in paying off their mortgage came to light (albeit that he still didn't understand what the problem was) when Sue was talking to the lender about "life insurance".

Again you are correct that converting the loan to a repayment type would have been a viable solution. They still had about 15 years left on the loan period and with lower interest rates the full capital repayment could have been fairly easily amortised into the remaining mortgage period. However, this is where Tom became involved in what up to then had been Sue's responsibility. Their complete ignorance about the basis of their mortgage lead to him being so certain that B&B were trying to cheat him in some way that he refused to engage with them at all.
Mark Ceylon / Seylon / SriLankerC Haining - "... a dangerous and unpleasant boil on the arse of humanity".

aesmith
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:14 am

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby aesmith » Mon May 08, 2017 9:04 am

ArthurWankspittle wrote:As for Amanda, I too think it is quite likely she hasn't a clue about mortgages and at best is going on the paid three times the amount borrowed bullshit Tom came out with at one point.

I agree, I think it's a figure someone plucked out of the air that's now being parroted as gospel. To pay three times the capital in 25 years would mean an average interest rate of 12%.

littleFred
Stern Faced Schoolmaster of Serious Discussion
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:12 am
Location: England, UK

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby littleFred » Mon May 08, 2017 9:11 am

Stupidity, ignorance and dishonesty, yes. But I would add: delusion. The individual wants to believe in lies or mistakes, whether made by themselves or other people, so much that they do actually believe them.

A delusion becomes an internalised truth that can withstand any contradictory evidence, so there's no point in fighting a delusion with facts.

For example, Tom has long believed that any court that finds against him is corrupt.

Delusions are contagious, and possibly inheritable.

hucknallred
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:34 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby hucknallred » Mon May 08, 2017 9:48 am

aesmith wrote:I agree, I think it's a figure someone plucked out of the air that's now being parroted as gospel. To pay three times the capital in 25 years would mean an average interest rate of 12%.


We explored this in the last thread, I got the list of historical BOE base rates & some number crunching was done, that took into account the abolition of MIRAS etc. All that was missing was the B&B's historical interest rates which would have followed the BOE rises/cuts.
AS UKAR are owned by the government could they be FOIed for the historical rates?

User avatar
Penny Wise
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:54 pm
Location: Deadlights

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Penny Wise » Mon May 08, 2017 11:24 am

notorial dissent wrote:As to whether Amanda is really that stupid, I'd have to vote yes, I think the entire family is resoundingly brain dead or deficient. I also think that Amanda just out of habit comes up with a lie for whatever occasion she needs one. Since TC admitted to all this in open court the first time around and it was memorialized in the judgment, it isn't like they haven't heard it all before, she just refused to acknowledge reality. And yes, again, I think they are ALL that stupid, on top of being basically and intrinsically dishonest.


Amanda is a liar and takes the Crawford followers for the idiots that they mostly are.

In Tom's first post on GOODF, before he deleted it, he admitted that he owed the Capital Balance.

In one of his youtube videos, he shows his annual mortgage statements, which show only interest being paid and more importantly shows year after year the amoung owed is not decreasing.

As for the missing endowment as confirmed both in Court and in one of Tom's video's the endowment was credited to his mortgage account just a few years into the mortgage.

Amanda is either a liar or completely delusional.
Wanna balloon?

User avatar
Pottapaug1938
Supreme Prophet (Junior Division)
Posts: 4941
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:26 pm
Location: In the woods, with a Hudson Bay axe in my hands.

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Pottapaug1938 » Mon May 08, 2017 2:15 pm

aesmith wrote:
ArthurWankspittle wrote:As for Amanda, I too think it is quite likely she hasn't a clue about mortgages and at best is going on the paid three times the amount borrowed bullshit Tom came out with at one point.

I agree, I think it's a figure someone plucked out of the air that's now being parroted as gospel. To pay three times the capital in 25 years would mean an average interest rate of 12%.


I was practicing law, in the early 80s, when an interest rate of 12% would have seemed cheap. I remember going over settlement sheets for real estate closings with clients; and they would often ask why their interest payments, over the term of the mortgage, were many times the principal amount being borrowed. I would explain that those interest payments added up; and were they not paying almost all interest, in their earliest mortgage payments, that figure would be even higher.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools

User avatar
Gregg
Conde de Quatloo
Posts: 4395
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Der Dachshundbünker
Contact:

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Gregg » Mon May 08, 2017 4:19 pm

I think Tom does and has always understood the particulars of his mortgage, its just that when facing a shortfall caused by his and Sue's own decisions he decided that it wasn't fair that he had to pay interest, and then latched onto the "I've paid 3 times what I borrowed, I made every payment over the 25 years, and therefore I think I should owe nothing"

That's his story, and he's sticking to it.
Supreme Commander of The Imperial Illuminati Air Force
Your concern is duly noted, filed, folded, stamped, sealed with wax and affixed with a thumbprint in red ink, forgotten, recalled, considered, reconsidered, appealed, denied and quietly ignored.

JimUk1
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby JimUk1 » Mon May 08, 2017 4:29 pm

Certainly is a merry-go-round with Tom and co.
He'll be appearing on ancient aliens next, claiming reptilian bankers have being planning to enslave the humans since year 33AD, when they killed Jesus, for casting them out the temple.

Normal Wisdom
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:28 am
Location: England, UK

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Normal Wisdom » Mon May 08, 2017 4:32 pm

Gregg wrote:I think Tom does and has always understood the particulars of his mortgage, its just that when facing a shortfall caused by his and Sue's own decisions he decided that it wasn't fair that he had to pay interest, and then latched onto the "I've paid 3 times what I borrowed, I made every payment over the 25 years, and therefore I think I should owe nothing"

That's his story, and he's sticking to it.


You may well be correct but I just can't think of a reason why they would simply stop paying the endowment policy premium only three years into the loan period but maintain (more or less) the interest payments for the next 22 years unless they were ignorant of the implications of doing so.
Mark Ceylon / Seylon / SriLankerC Haining - "... a dangerous and unpleasant boil on the arse of humanity".

rumpelstilzchen
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:00 pm
Location: Soho London

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby rumpelstilzchen » Mon May 08, 2017 5:01 pm

Normal Wisdom wrote:
You may well be correct but I just can't think of a reason why they would simply stop paying the endowment policy premium only three years into the loan period but maintain (more or less) the interest payments for the next 22 years unless they were ignorant of the implications of doing so.

I can understand it completely. I would say the opposite: You do know the implications. If you are self-employed and go through a period of having little money coming in you know you have to maintain the interest payments otherwise you will lose the house. You think to yourself that the endowment isn't important because you have more than twenty years to find that money. Just a few good deals....the business becoming a rip roaring success over the next few years.....hell, in twenty years I will have accumulated that piddling amount in cash and I will be able to pay it off easily.....that big deal will come tomorrow.......
I speak from experience. Been there, done that. Although, in my case, it was a pension linked mortgage. I stopped paying in to the pension within five years of beginning the mortgage and pension. At the time I could not afford the payments. I never paid another penny in to that pension plan. I simply paid the interest. Fortunately for me my business did ok. Good job too because that twenty years went by at a faster rate than expected.
BHF wrote:
It shows your mentality to think someone would make the effort to post something on the internet that was untrue.

ArthurWankspittle
Slavering Minister of Auto-erotic Insinuation
Posts: 2751
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:35 am
Location: Quatloos Immigration Control

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

Further to rumpelstilzchen's post, 1991 was a pretty bad time to be self employed or looking for a job. It makes sense that they stopped the endowment payments to save a bit of cash.
Going to Tibet now and deleting Facebook you have my email address

Chaos
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 570
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:53 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Chaos » Mon May 08, 2017 6:31 pm

given the cfraud's demeanor, I'm sure he would have been a real peach to hire.

getoutofdebtfools
Pirate
Pirate
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Wanstead

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby getoutofdebtfools » Thu May 25, 2017 8:03 am

Been away from the forum for bit, I presume Tom has his house back now as it's nearly 2 years since he, sweaty Sue and onesie-Amanda categorically stated they would...????
Oh the irony of the Get Out Of Debt Free website :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now owned by a debt management company :brickwall: Bye bye Ceylon :haha:

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10769
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby notorial dissent » Thu May 25, 2017 8:25 am

Yeah, and the RV came in even higher than the gurus predicted, Chrisy Morris won his seat in parliament, WeReNotaBank just bought the Bank of England out of bankruptcy, and Article 61 is in full force and effect. Oh and the moon is made of green cheese. :haha: :haha: Did we miss anything else?
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

Footloose52
Pirate
Pirate
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:03 pm
Location: On a train

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Footloose52 » Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 am

A property developer with no interpersonal skills became President of the USA, can we add that?

User avatar
Dr. Caligari
J.D., Miskatonic University School of Crickets
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:02 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: The Crawfords Keep Looking For A Unicorn

Postby Dr. Caligari » Thu May 25, 2017 8:02 pm

Footloose52 wrote:A property developerreality TV star with no interpersonal skills became President of the USA, can we add that?


FIFY.
Dr. Caligari
(Du musst Caligari werden!)


Return to “United Kingdom”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Linkdex [Bot] and 1 guest