Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby Gregg » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:06 pm

He Who Knows wrote:Excellent work Gregg, worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize - probably the first Parliamentarian of Quatloosia ever to be awarded one.
I was a bit confused, however, about the term Double Full Crawford and I accept that it must be me being a bit thick, rather than your excellent in-depth research. Please would you kindly elucidate: when you say
This means that Crawford might have in fact done an extremely rare Double Full Crawford, pissing away his equity and as much again after. A truly memorable own goal, the likes we rarely see.
does this mean Crawford has actually pissed away £180k? (£90k + £90k).
I am finding this level of stupidity quite hard to comprehend.


There is some confusion and all we have to go on is one of Tom's public statements which being something Tom said has the dual problems of being likely a lie and if not likely untrue through ignorance.

If you estimate the market value of the Fearn Chase Estate at £140,000 which is a good guess, you subtract what Tom owed at the start of this episode which we do know was ~£45,000 leaving the equity position at ~£95,000. Where it gets confusing is Tom said somewhere that he owed the banks £90,000 after the sale of the property. What is not certain is if that is before or after the bank took their fees and costs. From the way he said it, it could be taken to mean that they had just taken all his equity and he had nothing. The figures are close enough to make it possible that he had lost all of his equity but none more. But the way hie said it also left open the possibility that he had pissed away all the equity AND owed £90,000 more, a truly epic case of self destructive failure and very close to a Double Full Crawford, which in Tom's case would fall somewhere between £180,000 - £190,000.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby TheNewSaint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:08 pm

There seem to be two competing definitions for "Full Crawford":

1. a real estate transaction in which the owner, through stupidity and persistent legal woo above and beyond the call of duty, disposes of equity in a home exceeding the value of said home, without regards to the amount of that value.
2. £40,000.

The confusion sets in when talking about other people's losses. For example, did Rekha Patel pull a Full Crawford (losing an entire home), or a quintuple Crawford (losing £200,000 worth)?

As odd as this may sound, I think these contradictory definitions can co-exist. Many English words have different meanings depending on context (e.g., present tense "read" vs past tense "read"). Since this phrase and its two meanings sprang to life organically, I am loath to declare one correct and the other incorrect. You just have to be clear which you mean:

"Rekha Patel pulled a quintuple Crawford by losing a £200,000 home."
"Leigh Ravenscroft pulled a quintuple Crawford by losing 5 times the value of his boat."

For comparisons, FMOTLs will be credited with whichever value is larger.

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby longdog » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:08 pm

Siegfried Shrink wrote:I may have to postulate an n dimensiional j-space solution using a Runge-Kutta methedology to reconcile and iterate functions that seem superfically irreconcilable. Apparent absurdity has never deterred higher mathematics.


I have to confess that my mathematical abilities extend to basic arithmetic, two-dimensional trigonometry and pretty much nothing else. Algebra is and always will be beyond my ken but as I've managed for 52 years without it I'm not that bothered. On this basis I'm happy to leave the formulation of the necessary theorem in your hands just as long as there will still be cake.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby The Observer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:09 pm

If two economic schools spring up over what consists of a "Crawford"...
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby arayder » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:23 pm

So you are all saying it isn't a good idea that I enrolled in the Tom Crawford School of Wealth Management?

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:25 pm

longdog wrote: just as long as there will still be cake.


Cake is a given. Cherry Genoa. Dundee.
A Victoria or any other sponge does not qualify as cake in my book.

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:27 pm

arayder wrote:So you are all saying it isn't a good idea that I enrolled in the Tom Crawford School of Wealth Management?


You are apples, just do exactly the opposite of what you are taught and bounty shall be yours.

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby longdog » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:28 pm

TheNewSaint wrote:As odd as this may sound, I think these contradictory definitions can co-exist. Many English words have different meanings depending on context (e.g., present tense "read" vs past tense "read"). Since this phrase and its two meanings sprang to life organically, I am loath to declare one correct and the other incorrect. You just have to be clear which you mean:


Could we not distinguish between the various Crawfords by the simple expedient of using subscripts? A Crawford1 being the loss of the value of the property and a Crawford2 being the loss of the value of the property plus an equal amount in legal fees etc.

This principle could of course be extended to apply to VICTORYS!!!!11!! such that when somebody is given a free house by the courts like Tom and that lunatic client of ExpertInFuckAll were hoping for. On those occasions we can simply use a superscript as in "With the help of ExpertInFuckAll I am now the outright owner of 17 and 17A... A Crawford2" These will of course rarely be used and could best be described as totally-fucking-irrational numbers.
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SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby longdog » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:29 pm

Siegfried Shrink wrote:
longdog wrote: just as long as there will still be cake.


Cake is a given. Cherry Genoa. Dundee.
A Victoria or any other sponge does not qualify as cake in my book.


Clearly you are man of truly impeccable taste and discernment.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby TheNewSaint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:31 pm

longdog wrote:Could we not distinguish between the various Crawfords by the simple expedient of using subscripts? A Crawford1 being the loss of the value of the property and a Crawford2 being the loss of the value of the property plus an equal amount in legal fees etc.


Sure, why not?

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby He Who Knows » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:06 pm

thenewsaint wrote: There seem to be two competing definitions for "Full Crawford":

1. a real estate transaction in which the owner, through stupidity and persistent legal woo above and beyond the call of duty, disposes of equity in a home exceeding the value of said home, without regards to the amount of that value.
2. £40,000.

The confusion sets in when talking about other people's losses. For example, did Rekha Patel pull a Full Crawford (losing an entire home), or a quintuple Crawford (losing £200,000 worth)?

As odd as this may sound, I think these contradictory definitions can co-exist. Many English words have different meanings depending on context (e.g., present tense "read" vs past tense "read"). Since this phrase and its two meanings sprang to life organically, I am loath to declare one correct and the other incorrect. You just have to be clear which you mean:

"Rekha Patel pulled a quintuple Crawford by losing a £200,000 home."
"Leigh Ravenscroft pulled a quintuple Crawford by losing 5 times the value of his boat."

For comparisons, FMOTLs will be credited with whichever value is larger.

Thank you thenewsaint, we will use both definitions. I think that nicely completes Gregg's doctorate in Footle Basic Units of Measurements (BUM). Just one minor thing, Ravenscroft's boat was worth £26k so that means he pulled a triple Crawford by losing 3 times its value, or a double Crawford by losing £90k.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby Wakeman52 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Gregg wrote:

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:44 pm

The Observer wrote:If two economic schools spring up over what consists of a "Crawford"...
Splitter!

I don't think the Crawford place was ever worth £140k, more like £115k-120k.
At some point Tom said he owed £98k plus some more costs which were still to be added.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby longdog » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:13 pm

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
The Observer wrote:If two economic schools spring up over what consists of a "Crawford"...
Splitter!

I don't think the Crawford place was ever worth £140k, more like £115k-120k.
At some point Tom said he owed £98k plus some more costs which were still to be added.


I think we need to see the Crawford as being not so much based on a precise numerical formula but more as a philosophical principle.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby Burnaby49 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:24 pm

I agree. This is getting too caught up in absolute numbers rather than as a method of comparison. There are just so many factors unique to each situation that a simple numbers criteria does not convey the depth of stupidity in each individual case.

As an example compare Crawford to Patel. Even if Tom ends up losing more money than Rheka I'd still give her a much higher rating because she started over a trivial issue with little at risk. She lost her house over a pittance because of her overwhelming obsession to fight a pointless battle she couldn't win. Tom apparently started with his property at risk (assuming he couldn't meet the mortgage) and was trying to save it. Each fought a magnificent take-no-prisoners campaign with little to chose between the actual fights but I believe a full Patel should have a higher rating than a full Crawford.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby ArthurWankspittle » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:32 pm

Are we looking a Quatloos equivalent of "one whole juju flop situation" and "belgium" then?
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby TheNewSaint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:38 pm

longdog wrote:i think we need to see the Crawford as being not so muchI based on a precise numerical formula but more as a philosophical principle.


Agreed. A lot of times we don't know all the details, anyway, so we can't put a precise value on things. It's a very rough unit of measure.

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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby He Who Knows » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:25 am

TheNewSaint wrote:
longdog wrote:
i think we need to see the Crawford as being not so muchI based on a precise numerical formula but more as a philosophical principle.



Agreed. A lot of times we don't know all the details, anyway, so we can't put a precise value on things. It's a very rough unit of measure.

True, it's hard to put a precise value on the loss until the fat lady sings. Take Wrecka's situation: the cottage would have fetched £225k had she not been a Princess Shoutypants and self-sabotagingly disrupted the estate agent's work. Now it'll only fetch £135-150k at auction which means she may get no change at all once the ever-spiralling legal/sales costs are taken out. This is where our Footle BUM (Basic Unit of Measurement) falls down as we don't know whether Wrecka's loss was a 1.5 Crawford (£135k auction value) or potential Double Crawford (£225k open market value).
Maybe we should do an actual monetary loss league table at the end of every Footle financial year. This year we have Robert 'Crab-bait' White at the top, followed by Wrecka, then battling it out for 3rd place are Crawfraud and Captain Pugwash and the Three Wise Monkeys (Ravenscroft's boat's name). Quite exciting.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby grixit » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:11 am

The Observer wrote:While this was scholarly, Greg's measurements do not account for all sovrun/FOTLer' successful attempts at losing their abodes. Greg has fully overlooked the US masterpiece, Ed and Elaine Brown. Not only did the Browns lose their home and business properties, but managed to do it after being jailed, not before being jailed. Other considerations that have to be taken into account was the freakish, tasteless and senseless overbuilding that the Browns abused their residence with, as well as the sabotaging of the property to make it almost unmarketable at a distress sale. Neither a Rehka or a Full Crawford can account for these factors fully so it is obvious we need to calculate what will meet the measurement that I propose we name as a Boobhead Brown.


I believe what we need is the Brown Coefficient. The Crawford and the Reka both require a certain amount of stability in the value of the property during the duration of the process. The Brown Coefficient only applies in cases in which, in the course of losing the property, the sov manages to significantly depress its value. Making a hole in the roof is not enough, you have to do something like hide bombs on the property. In that case, the Brown Coefficient is the ratio of the final expected value of the property to its original value.
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Re: Sov-Cit Victory Currencies defined, Quatloos Code

Postby grixit » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:19 am

The Observer wrote:If two economic schools spring up over what consists of a "Crawford"...


A split in opinion in religion can produce bitter warfare. In economics it just means two Nobel Prizes.
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