Where is the New Nonsense?

Moderator: ArthurWankspittle

Siegfried Shrink
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: West Midlands, England
Contact:

Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:00 pm

It could be just the lazy hazy crazy days of summer, but the world of 'daft as a brush' seems to have either sobered up or gone away.
The cry of 'wet ink signature' is no longer heard in the land, if evictions are happening there are no crowds of ragged trousered philanthropists shuffling and yammering round the scene, and there is a sad lack of pointless confrontation.
Where are the police baiters, the bear pokers, the wilfully obnoxious nowadays?
The truly productive of yore, the great causes of the distant couple of years ago, the folk who could command an army, or at least a platoon to their bidding seem to have gone to their rest with no mystic trumpet or drum to summon them to the lists!

The ongoing topics are squeezed dry, the woo is fading, the brave but pointless efforts seem to have failed and died away, even the truly stubborn have fallen rather quiet, and I defy tomorrow's total failure of Swissindo to come up with the promised redemption to provoke more than the odd stifled rumble.

This is a call for mission creep!

Rather than just looking at current crazies, now is the time to creat or perdict what the next mad idea to sweep the land will be.
It does seem to me that pretty well anything will do, as long as it has a confusing enough rationale, as grist to the mill of those who will believe all the off beat ideas they have been presented with already.

I have no talent for original thought, but surely someone can come up with some really off the wall concept to get the innocent blood running in the streets again? If the geniouses of the past could manage to mislead so many so greatly, is that talent still alive somewhere.
For that matter, where are the truly inspiring and all British lunatics when we need them? The great names just haunt the dusty corridors now, if they have not fled to other lands.

Looking west to the productive genius of Canada and USA is not hopeful. The US fad for 'wire fraud' is not likely to catch on here, as it would be even more nonsensical and ineffective as it is in America.

The entire secret trust account, name magic, admiralty court, living dead people with all caps on or off, the whole convoluted heap of rubbish arose from a simple and it must have been deliberate misreading of a piece of 17th C British legilsation, and of course we have the Magna Carta botherers similarly inspired.

There must be some other piece of obscure law that can be revived and shamelessly distorted to set in train a whole new generation of nonsense.
Now is the time for great minds to rally round, and as a fisherman scatters ground bait in the waters, find an attractive idiocy to inspire and attract suckers, to ensure the future of watching fools shoot themselves in the foot.

longdog
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby longdog » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Siegfried Shrink wrote:There must be some other piece of obscure law that can be revived and shamelessly distorted to set in train a whole new generation of nonsense.
Now is the time for great minds to rally round, and as a fisherman scatters ground bait in the waters, find an attractive idiocy to inspire and attract suckers, to ensure the future of watching fools shoot themselves in the foot.


When... Or if... Brexit ever happens I suspect the chaotic legal changes to either incorporate EU law into or remove EU law from the UK statute book will be a virtually endless supply of grist to the pseudolaw mill. At the moment they like to call Britain's entry into the EU 'treason' but it's inevitable that sooner or later they are going to declare the exit from the EU as treason... Either as well as or instead of.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?

Siegfried Shrink
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: West Midlands, England
Contact:

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:42 pm

That's a good point, but where is the money? For this stuff to really catch on there needs to be some ready cash promised or at least some debts escaped.

Would anyone believe that when we quit the EU somehow huge sums of money will be paid to all who qualify, from a secret trust that has been held back from us? All you will need to do to participate is to send some special letters to Brussels?

I think you may be onto something with that. I will remember I read it here first.

exiledscouser
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:01 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby exiledscouser » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Well we have The Baron who has made his pile of cash from his liens, so much money in fact that he has retired to his caravan. Neelu is a trillionaire many times over and so is employing some men to help her move out of her house. There's plenty of money to be made!

TC hasn't given up and Ceylon keeps pumping out impotent rage-filled YT rants about white lines on the roads of Nottingham. He hasn't quite the platform he once had at Goodf before its demise but the "new" ex-goofy forum still attracts the old gang, Assassin tells tall tales, Society of the Specsavers informs everyone that the Fuhrer was simply misunderstood.

Some of the crazier types have retreated into private FB groups to stew in their own shared prejudices - they are still there but mercifully they have Gone back in their box and may as well not exist.

I'll admit there isn't quite the intensity when Footle-mania first took hold but the whole thing is entirely circular. A new "currency" will be along soon, another guru with a 100% record of victory over the PTB will surface, some obscure treaty from 1476 will be reinterpreted and championed. We also have some top quality emerging talent with Scotland at the fore; ExpertinSFA coming along nicely, Rob Ess is sticking it to the Procurator Fiscal and a plethora of common law courts are springing up (starting in Dunblane) to amuse and excite. If only they'd voted Yes!

Remember too that we are in the "silly season" (or should that be "unsilly") so don't worry, it'll all kick off again shortly!

aesmith
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby aesmith » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:37 pm

exiledscouser wrote:.. Assassin tells tall tales ...

Which reminds me, I can't quite make up my mind about him, whether his Darling Buds of May type fantasy stories are all complete nonsense, or just mostly nonsense.

Siegfried Shrink
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: West Midlands, England
Contact:

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:07 pm

exiledscouser wrote:Remember too that we are in the "silly season" (or should that be "unsilly") so don't worry, it'll all kick off again shortly!


This is true, and in the meanwhile Planet Niburu approaches, the Earth's poles are about to shift, an eclipse is giving the flat earthers geometrical nightmares, and we are approaching the 'End of Days' in September.
Plenty to look forward to, and that Swissindo money is due tomorrow. :-)

rosy
Pirates Mate
Pirates Mate
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby rosy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:29 pm

There's a bit of a Freeloader on the Land flavour to this anecdote: https://notalwaysright.com/hasnt-got-energy-deal/90486/ I understand some of them use a similar argument to try to avoid paying for water. Maybe the new nonsense will be based on not believing in paying for things - a qhasi-religious movement, perhaps.

(Ignore the error made by the call-centre worker who assumed that the customer's phone used electricity.)

Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 5633
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Burnaby49 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:23 pm

I hate to rain on your parade (or, as the Americans used to say, piss in your cornflakes) but if Canada is any example things are just going to get bleaker. We had a great run from the late 1990's to about 2014 or so but then it all fell apart. It wasn't even a grand Wagnerian collapse, just a slow deflation like a worn-out balloon. The schemes all failed, court cases lost, guru's discredited, followers scattered. Every once in a while it looks like some new guru or plan is struggling fitfully to gain a bit of traction but it's always a false dawn. Your British parasites largely copied our failing schemes and some, Like Peter of England, even made some money off of the gullible but it all collapsed as soon as the court decisions started hammering them. Tom and Ceylon still yammer on but nobody's listening anymore.

One area that's still unexploited in Britain is income taxes. We and the Americans had a significant number of sovereign type schemes which revolved around the claimed right not to pay taxes. Our big one was Porisky and his Paradigm Education Group, the Americans had Pete Hendrickson and his 'Cracking the Code'. You've had a lot of entertainment from scofflaws not paying their council taxes but income tax is strangely ignored. Perhaps because of a difference in tax laws.

Brexit might give you a revival but I'm not hopeful. Canada's various movements are burnt-out and Britain has gone down in flames evan faster.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs

Pox
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:17 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Pox » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:50 pm

aesmith wrote:
exiledscouser wrote:.. Assassin tells tall tales ...

Which reminds me, I can't quite make up my mind about him, whether his Darling Buds of May type fantasy stories are all complete nonsense, or just mostly nonsense.


Neither can I. But mostly I think it is complete tosh and whatever he is on, I want some ( it sounds so idyllic).

longdog
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby longdog » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Burnaby49 wrote:You've had a lot of entertainment from scofflaws not paying their council taxes but income tax is strangely ignored. Perhaps because of a difference in tax laws.


The vast majority of low and middle earning people in the UK have their income tax deducted by their employer under the Pay As You Earn scheme (usually just called P.A.Y.E) so there is no way to avoid paying. It's a condition of employment as the employer is legally obliged to deduct taxes before paying the employee. Because of this there's simply no mileage in being a 'tax protester' like in the US.

Self employed people and the like could try 'tax protesting' if they wanted to but the British taxman would give very short shrift to anything approaching the US tax protester arguments.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?

Pox
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:17 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Pox » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:46 pm

Can someone please post the link to the site that the GOODF lot created when they learnt the site was being/had been sold?

Siegfried Shrink
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: West Midlands, England
Contact:

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Siegfried Shrink » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm


Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 5633
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Burnaby49 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:04 pm

longdog wrote:
Burnaby49 wrote:You've had a lot of entertainment from scofflaws not paying their council taxes but income tax is strangely ignored. Perhaps because of a difference in tax laws.


The vast majority of low and middle earning people in the UK have their income tax deducted by their employer under the Pay As You Earn scheme (usually just called P.A.Y.E) so there is no way to avoid paying. It's a condition of employment as they employer is legally obliged to deduct taxes before paying the employee. Because of this there's simply no mileage in being a 'tax protester' like in the US.


Here it's called deduction at source. Typically I'd have income tax, EI (unemployment insurance), Superannuation (government pension plan) Canada Pension Plan, and even union dues deducted at source. When I retired my net income decrease was at a much lower percentage than my gross income because most of these items disappeared from the deduction list. Now that my main income is a government pension all that is take off is income tax and various deductions for medical insurance.

The Poriskyites were all self-employed or were employees of their own businesses. Being self-employed rather than being an employee of a corporation made it easy. They just didn't report their income to the Canada Revenue Agency. There were a significant number of dentists who fell for the scheme but most had their businesses incorporated. However as the owners of the company, they could do what they wanted. They'd run their dental income through the business and bring the business income down to nil by paying themselves bonuses equal to the net income but they wouldn't report the bonuses personally.

The rationale for not reporting their income was that the Paradigm Education Group had proven they were not taxable so why get the CRA involved at all? That's what made it tax evasion. Had they filed reporting their correct incomes but without including any payment for taxes they wouldn't have faced criminal charges, just reassessment and collection action. The problem with this approach was that they would have had to appeal the reassessments to the Tax Court of Canada and convince a judge that the Paradigm interpretation of income tax law was correct. While they were happy to evade tax based on the Paradigm theory none of them were apparently willing to voluntarily put it to the test in court. They all did so involuntarily when they presented it as a defense in their tax evasion trials.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs

exiledscouser
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:01 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby exiledscouser » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:16 pm

Pox wrote:Can someone please post the link to the site that the GOODF lot created when they learnt the site was being/had been sold?


http://goodf.forumotion.com/forum

Beware. Leave critical thinking at the door.

Pox
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:17 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Pox » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:02 pm

Thanks - and to Siegfreid (?).

User avatar
morrand
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:42 pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby morrand » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 am

longdog wrote:The vast majority of low and middle earning people in the UK have their income tax deducted by their employer under the Pay As You Earn scheme (usually just called P.A.Y.E) so there is no way to avoid paying. It's a condition of employment as the employer is legally obliged to deduct taxes before paying the employee. Because of this there's simply no mileage in being a 'tax protester' like in the US.

Self employed people and the like could try 'tax protesting' if they wanted to but the British taxman would give very short shrift to anything approaching the US tax protester arguments.


Balderdash. A quick visit over to HMRC gives me this information:

You’ll need to send a tax return if, in the last tax year:
  • you were self-employed - you can deduct allowable expenses
  • you got £2,500 or more in untaxed income, for example from tips or renting out a property - contact the helpline if it was less than £2,500
...........
Claiming tax relief

Fill in a tax return to claim money back from HMRC for:
  • donations to charity ....
  • work expenses over £2,500 - if they’re less and you don’t need to send a return for any other reason, contact the helpline instead


So there you go. Two big themes in U.S. tax dodging (and note that most people in the U.S. are on something like a PAYE system as well, though we have to file returns anyway) are:
  1. I don't have to pay taxes because wages/salaries/pensions/etc. aren't taxed except in [Puerto Rico | the District of Columbia | the territories | the case of federal employees]; and
  2. My living expenses are genuine work expenses, therefore deductible, and—hey!—it turns out that 100% of my wages went to living expenses!

So, a little extra paperwork and a little hocus-pocus, and, presto! Money!

Nuts? Of course. So is applying UCC to UK or EU debts. So is 1099-OID fraud. So would be the approach of Joe Baloney setting up the Joe Baloney Charitable Trust Ltd. (which has the sole charitable purpose of assisting Joe Baloney in meeting his ordinary living expenses), and deducting from tax all of Joe's wages—which, good man, he donates to charity. But people try things like those, too.

They try them. They don't necessarily succeed, and with fewer returns coming in to start with, I'd grant that HMRC could have more time to go through the ones they do get with a finer-toothed comb, and...er...pick out the nits.

Siegfried Shrink wrote:That's a good point [about Brexit changes leading to new schemes], but where is the money? For this stuff to really catch on there needs to be some ready cash promised or at least some debts escaped.

Would anyone believe that when we quit the EU somehow huge sums of money will be paid to all who qualify, from a secret trust that has been held back from us? All you will need to do to participate is to send some special letters to Brussels?

I think you may be onto something with that. I will remember I read it here first.


Oh, I don't know. Could be, I suppose. More likely it'll start with some notion that "debts contracted under EU law are void now that the UK is out of EU," and anyone trying to enforce those debts is committing treason, as imposing foreign law on British subjects under Magna Carta, and so on. There would be a nice continuity from the current foolishness into that.
---
Morrand

User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 6586
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:48 am
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby The Observer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:52 am

Burnaby49 wrote:Here it's called deduction at source.


In the US, it's called W-2 deductions, based on the employer being required to deduct the taxes from the income of the employee's regular paycheck. The W-2 Form is given to the employee after the tax year has concluded for them to file with their 1040 Income Tax Return to verify their claimed gross income and taxes withheld.

However, calling it W-2 deductions is a bit of a misnomer, since it is the W-4 Form is the real initiating document for the employee. They are required to file this form with the employer as a method to show how many allowances they will be claiming over and beyond the standard of a single person allowance. This allows people with a spouse and children or other qualifying dependents to reduce the amount of tax withheld in anticipation of them claiming these people as exemptions on their tax returns, which reduces the amount of income that would be deemed taxable.

Given that this is basically an honor system, back in the 1980's tax protester guru's went around selling their de-tax packages by instructing their victims that the income tax was illegal, but the way to get out of it was to file a new W-4 with their employers claiming excessive allowances; one standard method was to claim 99 allowances, resulting in the employee getting a virtual pay raise due to zero income tax being withheld (this did not affect the requirement for Social Security or Medicare taxes being withheld since these were straight deductions across the board based on a percentage deduction). In time, the whole shoddy scheme came to light when the employee filed their returns and found they still owed tax, despite the guru's assurances about not owing tax. Others, realizing the implications of what they had gotten themselves into, did not file the returns and thus received substitute-for-return assessments farther down the road.

The IRS then enacted requirements of employers to notify the IRS whenever the employer received a W-4 that claimed 10 or more allowances. The taxpayer got hit with a $500 penalty for each W-4 they filed as well and the employer was instructed to withhold for only one allowance. This continued for a while until the problem dried up and the employers complained about the burden of being the IRS lookout. As it stands now, the IRS takes responsibility for detecting when withholding on a taxpayer appears to be excessive and will send a "lock-in" letter instructing the employer to reduce the allowances claimed until the IRS provides further information.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff

Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 5633
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby Burnaby49 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:06 am

So there you go. Two big themes in U.S. tax dodging (and note that most people in the U.S. are on something like a PAYE system as well, though we have to file returns anyway) are:

1.I don't have to pay taxes because wages/salaries/pensions/etc. aren't taxed except in [Puerto Rico | the District of Columbia | the territories | the case of federal employees]; and
2.My living expenses are genuine work expenses, therefore deductible, and—hey!—it turns out that 100% of my wages went to living expenses!


Actually those are big here. However slightly different reasons behind the conclusions as you'd expect from different legislation.

1 - I believe number 1 is based on Cracking the Code where Hendricks claims that the word 'includes' actually means 'includes only'. If I recall correctly there is some provision in the US tax code that says that 'states' include DC, Puerto Rico, and territories such as Guam and Samoa. So in Hendricks' interpretation only residents of those places are taxable.

Our income tax act says that the word 'persons' includes corporations. So, in the Poriskyite tax evasion world, only corporations are taxable and Porisky's mythical natural person is not a corporation.

2 - Number 2 was, with some modification, the entire rationale behind the Fiscal Arbitrator scam but using the legal man and natural man nonsense. Legal man paid the taxes but natural man had to stay alive in order for legal man to be a taxpayer. So anything (a very flexible anything) that natural man spent on stayin' alive was deductable as a cost of keeping legal man alive. They called the two entities Principal (legal man) and Agent (natural man). Since it was a lot of work going through and compiling receipts for all of natural man's expenditures and, since anything saved rather than spent was, in this theory, part of taxable income, the Fiscal Arbitrator scammer just plucked huge arbitrary numbers out of the air.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs

User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 6586
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:48 am
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby The Observer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:45 am

There were many variations of number 1, Cracking The Code (CTC) was a relative late-comer. The 861 ploy, championed by Thurston Bell and Larken Rose, claiming that Section 861 of the Internal Revenue Code specified that your income was not taxable if it was paid within the US, had preceded Pete Hendrickson for several years.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff

User avatar
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Re: Where is the New Nonsense?

Postby notorial dissent » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:58 am

It seems that a lot, if not all of the modern tax avoidance/cheating/systems scams are more or less based on intentional or actual function illiteracy, specifically the includes/states business or the deliberate misreading of 861. Hendrickson was kind of an odd man out with his theory that the income tax ONLY applied to people who actually worked for the gov’t, although there is a variation that says that the gov’t can ONLY tax you if you live and work in DC, but again it all seems to boil down to illiteracy. The big things seems to be twisting and torturing words until they have a different meaning than the one in the dictionary, or that words ONLY have one meaning, which again comes down to illiteracy.

So there isn't and hasn't been a lot of originality out there even from the start.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.


Return to “United Kingdom”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest