Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

[Hercule Parrot]

I don't see what the big deal is about being reassessed. If you legitimately are still in the same condition or if modern medicine has improved your condition, should it not be reassessed.

In principle, yes. But there is a widespread belief that recent government reforms to the assessment process include a covert agenda to move the eligibility threshold upwards, removing entitlement and support from people who still need it.

For example, the new system refuses to rely upon the National Health Service's expert medical staff, or to accept the diagnosis and recommendations of community General Practitioners. Instead they contracted with some rather disreputable private sector companies, leading to dubiously accurate, very narrow assessment processes being carried out by questionably qualified staff, in order to declare people fit for work in defiance of all evidence. As longdog reports above, these 'assessments' often fail to withstand scrutiny, but the journey is still very stressful for the subjects.

[SteveUK]

Success!!!1!!!!!
Crabbie breaks the fantastic news that CT is now null and void. Apparently CLC have just issued the judgement . Happy days. He was right all along.

Unfortunately some of the more grounded less insane members are already asking about how CLC will enforce this judgement.

Hmmm

Good news but I’ll keep it short for the moment. A common law court was convened yesterday in Glasgow concerning the council tax issue, this covers the whole of the UK. There was a unanimous verdict by 12 jurors on 2 counts. 1: Payment of council tax has been declared null and void. 2: Anyone demanding payment for council tax will be held personally liable and guilty of an offence. The paperwork needs to be submitted to the right places and the court order will be ready to use by everyone as soon as it’s in place, the website will be updated as soon as this has been done. The only condition to use this court order is, you must have recorded your birth and reclaimed the fictitious name with the common law court.

[Siegfried Shrink]

you must have recorded your birth and reclaimed the fictitious name with the common law court.

For a modest fee. I assume? There has to be a quid or two in this scam somewhere.

[SteveUK]

you must have recorded your birth and reclaimed the fictitious name with the common law court.

For a modest fee. I assume? There has to be a quid or two in this scam somewhere.

I think it's about £7 to get a hard copy of your CLC documents pointless shit.potentially a couple of grand in it for Smith , minus crabbies referal fee of course

[notorial dissent]

you must have recorded your birth and reclaimed the fictitious name with the common law court.

For a modest fee. I assume? There has to be a quid or two in this scam somewhere.

By Jove, I think he's got it.

[Wakeman52]

For example, the new system refuses to rely upon the National Health Service's expert medical staff, or to accept the diagnosis and recommendations of community General Practitioners. Instead they contracted with some rather disreputable private sector companies, leading to dubiously accurate, very narrow assessment processes being carried out by questionably qualified staff, in order to declare people fit for work in defiance of all evidence. As longdog reports above, these 'assessments' often fail to withstand scrutiny, but the journey is still very stressful for the subjects.

I have friends who've been subjected to these examinations; one described it as more like an interrogation. Nearly all the appeals they've made against their private sector assessments (which usually result in payments being reduced or even withdrawn) have been upheld. Not everyone appeals. That suits the current agenda, to reduce the bill by raising the bar; a political decision on which I won't comment further.

[NYGman]

For example, the new system refuses to rely upon the National Health Service's expert medical staff, or to accept the diagnosis and recommendations of community General Practitioners. Instead they contracted with some rather disreputable private sector companies, leading to dubiously accurate, very narrow assessment processes being carried out by questionably qualified staff, in order to declare people fit for work in defiance of all evidence. As longdog reports above, these 'assessments' often fail to withstand scrutiny, but the journey is still very stressful for the subjects.

I have friends who've been subjected to these examinations; one described it as more like an interrogation. Nearly all the appeals they've made against their private sector assessments (which usually result in payments being reduced or even withdrawn) have been upheld. Not everyone appeals. That suits the current agenda, to reduce the bill by raising the bar; a political decision on which I won't comment further.

I just think the current system is rife for abuse, and serves to diminish one's self worth. For example, I have a chronic illness, and was diagnosed while in college. I have two paternal cousins who also have the same illness, although from what I can gather, I have it worse. They live in the UK, I live in the US. While I have had to use my insurance and pay some large amounts over time for deductibles and out of network doctors, and other medical procedures, tests, medicines, etc. I have had 4 surgeries, am taking a Bioengineered medicine at +9k every 6 weeks, and burn up my deductible every year by April. Conversely, my cousins get free treatment on the NHS, so don't need to worry about that.

However here is where it gets interesting. I completed college, attended law school, studied for then took and passed the Bar, all while suffering from the effects of my illness. I do have a high tolerance for pain, but just to paint a better picture, 1 week after taking the Bar I ended up collapsing from the pain and having emergency surgery to remove a bit of me that stopped working. While I have had a few weeks off over the last 20+ years to have some more operations, I have always returned to full time work, and never even contemplated disability.

Now let's turn to my English cousins. Both are over 45, they were diagnosed right after Uni, a few years apart. One has had surgery, the other hasn't. They both live at home with their parents and do not work. They collect their disability and what other benefits they can from the government. They don't really do much else. Yes they have a disability, that can cause pain, discomfort, and require time off. They do not need disability. They could work, but choose to take the easy way out. The Government seems fine with it, so no need for them to even try. However, to say that they are better off collecting their government money, and staying home, watching TV, playing video games, and using their computer. While they do have what I have, and it sucks for them, I do not consider myself disabled, or disadvantaged because of my illness. My illness hasn't stopped me becoming a Lawyer, and doing well for myself.

I feel the easy access and low barriers to disability benefit has effectively ruined my cousins lives. While they are also partly to blame for abusing it, and accepting that they were disabled, as it was in their financial interest. I also know in the 20+ years from their diagnosis, medicines have improved, so has surgery, to a point where this condition can be managed quite well. In my view there is no reason for them to continue getting it, but they likely are experts in the system and will keep receiving it until they die.

Perhaps it is Natural Selection at work. As they both still live at home, and have done so since Uni, and they don't really go out, because, why? They have not found a life partner, and at this point, likely will never reproduce, putting an end to that lazy, entitled, family line.

[longdog]

I have friends who've been subjected to these examinations; one described it as more like an interrogation. Nearly all the appeals they've made against their private sector assessments (which usually result in payments being reduced or even withdrawn) have been upheld. Not everyone appeals. That suits the current agenda, to reduce the bill by raising the bar; a political decision on which I won't comment further.

I've had two so far for ESA. The first was by 'medical professional' who was in fact a physiotherapist, or as I referred to him in my correspondence with the DWP "a jumped up PE teacher", who made very precise claims about my range of movement in my limbs, neck, spine etc, despite the fact he measured none of them. He basically described my bipolar disorder as 'causing no functional problems' without ever even knowing what questions to ask let alone asking them. I'm not entirely sure he even knew what bipolar disorder was and I suspect he was just another Loughborough educated gym-bunny who thought all mental health problems were simply a lack of moral fibre. As I said previously the appeal was over and done with in under 5 mins and the DWP didn't even show up.

The second time I was a bit wiser and took a witness and surreptitiously recorded the medical. This time it was with a registered nurse who asked pertinent questions and brought the session to an end after about ten minutes when it was clear I had qualified on at least two 'non-functional descriptors' and the points system was not applicable.

Clearly the luck of the draw may have been a factor but the fact that ATOS were ever using physiotherapists as assessors for mental health based claimants tells you what an appalling mess they made of things. I'm far from convinced a physiotherapist even qualifies as a medical professional. I wonder what other people they recruited as medical professionals... Manicurists? Hairdressers? Homeopaths?

[longdog]

I feel the easy access and low barriers to disability benefit has effectively ruined my cousins lives. While they are also partly to blame for abusing it, and accepting that they were disabled, as it was in their financial interest.

It is very far from being easy access and low barriers and I'm far from convinced that the fact that you share the same illness with your cousins makes you qualified to pass judgement on whether they are or are not sufficiently disabled as to be deserving of sate benefits... Which are far from generous I might add.

I'm well aware that many if not a majority of people with the same condition as me work... I worked pretty solidly from 16 to 40 with it but that was then and this is now. There's also the very important fact that the nature of the work a person is capable of doing and the organisation for which they work has a very great influence on how they will be treated and that in itself can affect their health.

Look at it this way... If I were, for the sake of argument, a university lecturer with bipolar-disorder. It's very likely that the university that employed me would have very liberal (for want of a better word) attitude to employing people with mental illness and would tolerate repeated absences and make generous allowances for their employee. Now put yourself in my position... I've been a unskilled or semi-skilled worker for all my life and the only job I would be likely to get now, my HGV driving days are over (no licence any more because they wouldn't renew it) and my service engineer skills are hopelessly out of date, is unskilled menial work. Now I have no objection to doing unskilled menial work but I would still be a disposable drone and repeated absences would just lead to me being rapidly replaced. The stress of knowing that I would inevitably fail would just make the failure more likely and all of the disability discrimination acts in the world won't change a thing.

[NYGman]

I feel the easy access and low barriers to disability benefit has effectively ruined my cousins lives. While they are also partly to blame for abusing it, and accepting that they were disabled, as it was in their financial interest.

It is very far from being easy access and low barriers and I'm far from convinced that the fact that you share the same illness with your cousins makes you qualified to pass judgement on whether they are or are not sufficiently disabled as to be deserving of sate benefits... Which are far from generous I might add.

Unfortunately I do know my cousins, and know they are less symptomatic, have had less operations, and unlike me, are not allergic the the drug typically prescribed when the illness is active that knocks it right out. I really don't want to get in to what we have, but believe me they are both milking it. While amounts they get may be low, considering they live in the paid for family home, and eat the family food, means that most of their benifits are spent on frivalities. I am sure over the years they have learned the system, this is their full time job.

I will add, what we have really has no outward symptoms. There is no lab test for it. It requires invasive testing to diagnose, and even a correct diagnosis can take years. Add to that it is cyclical, we are not sick all the time. We can have have good weeks, months, and even years without bad days. This is the same for them. However, at least they can take medicine if a flair up doesn't go away, I can not.

If they are really suffering every day then they shold be having surgery to fix. Should get a few years of good days after that. I know NHS had it's issues, but I would think if someone is suffering daily, and there exists a surgery to relieve that pain, they would pay for it.

I realize this isn't the same for everyone, and my point in sharing was to equate my cousins with PAYG Dave who also claims a disability, doesn't work, but while he legitimately has something, should not necessarily give him a free pass. Imagine if Professor Hawkins had retired when he was diagnosed. I am in no way saying PAYG Dave is Hawkins, but just because you have a disability doesn't mean you should give up. It is a safety net, not an offer of employment.

[SteveUK]

Bound to work. I'm sure the royal mail have invested heavily on a FMOTL Template Detector machine.

Stephen Whittingham Try placing postage stamps on both rear and front of each piece of paper you want to submit and put your initials at 45 degrees through each stamp. They cannot ignore the post office it worked for me once trying to get an appeal in a tennency matter. My letters were ignored before

[Hercule Parrot]

Bound to work. I'm sure the royal mail have invested heavily on a FMOTL Template Detector machine.

Stephen Whittingham Try placing postage stamps on both rear and front of each piece of paper you want to submit and put your initials at 45 degrees through each stamp. They cannot ignore the post office it worked for me once trying to get an appeal in a tennency matter. My letters were ignored before

If these loons are buying two stamps per sheet of paper, the royal mail are probably encouraging the delusional rumour...

[SteveUK]

creating Joinder with the Postie

[SteveUK]

Big ambitions for CLC v Council Tax round 2. Looks like Crabbie is gunning for a gathering of no less than 100 rebels fucknuts.

Given no credit Dave can't muster a dozen folks , could the predicted group split be closer?

"URGENT. Great news with the council tax common law court decision, now we need to find a building to convene the next cases. Somewhere in the Midlands would be best as it would be central for a good turnout, but it doesn’t have to be there. We need enough space for at least 100 people, a privately owned building would be ideal so the system have no control on what we do, unless the owners are restricted by operating a business from the building. They know the time is coming for change and will block anything if they can, as they did with the building that was booked for the original council tax case. Even church or salvation army buildings would be good so as they know and agree with what we intend to do. Please get your thinking heads on and see what we can come up with, and if you think you may know of somewhere please do a bit of reasearch and ask questions to find out if it’s suitable, thanks."

[JimUk1]

To says Rob isn’t bothered about his bankruptcy is an understatement; he certainly keeps banging on about this fictious judgement.

Thought you wasn’t bothered Rob? Seem to be spending an awful lot of resources going on about it?

[notorial dissent]

Well, when you're officially, legally, really bankrupt, and probably pretty well broke as well, unless you have a lot of the old ready stashed somewhere, there isn't much else one can do.

[TheNewSaint]

We need enough space for at least 100 people, a privately owned building would be ideal so the system have no control on what we do, unless the owners are restricted by operating a business from the building

Why would that matter? Crabby's running a common law court, not a business. Is he admitting this is a commercial enterprise?

[longdog]

They're planning to bring down the whole treasonous system but they can't manage to rent a function room.

[notorial dissent]

I'd think coming up with the rental\ fee would be the next near insurmountable after getting something organized to begin with. Maybe they know someone with a disused/derelict garage or barn who isn't too particular about who they let use it.

[longdog]

I like the requirement that the room be capable of holding 100 people despite the fact they've never come close to gathering a quarter of that number together in one place at the same time and the fact that all previous hearings could have been heard in a phonebox.