Inquiries concerning the history and current state of UK pseudolaw communities

[Gregg]

Going a bit into the thesis of my planned paper, my suggestion is that around 2000 a collection of pseudolaw ideas developed in the US Sovereign Citizen community "crystallized" into a core Pseudolaw Memeplex, and then that Memeplex has subsequently spread from country to country, community to community. Not much of it changes during that process. The result is a surprisingly consistent international 'alternative' legal system - so at least when it comes to pseudolaw theory and terminology, widely different groups often speak the same basic 'lingo', and can understand and use each other's sources

Way too late, it traces to at least the 1980s, in its original the holy texts were passed out during meetings held in coffee shop meeting rooms on old purple mimeographed handouts. The true origin of all the "Supreme Court for the united States, setting at Denny's" jokes.

[AndyK]

My Bad !!!!
I forgot to reference the two key documents:

King James Bible

Magna Carta

(in no particular order)

Now in regards to mental illness:

Although most of the adherents are totally bat-shit crazy, that doesn't count as a legitimate mental illness.

However, there are some cases of highly likely mental disorders. Case in point -- David Merrill Van Pelt. For a good portion of his life he was able to complete college, hold down a job, and marry and father a child. Then something snapped. Since that time, he's dewlt in an an alternate reality of his own definition.

I can't think of an other big names in the sovereign/FMOTL/TP movements who have exhibited such a change.

Thus, IMO, technical mental illness is not associated with or found in most of them.

[Gregg]

Paul Andrew Mitchell (or whatever his real name is, Modeski or something like that)

[BoomerSooner17]

Mitch Modeleski

[ArthurWankspittle]

Thus, IMO, technical mental illness is not associated with or found in most of them.

True. David Merrill Van Pelt was found unfit to plead in one case IIRC and I think there was only one other FOTL/SovCit/Tax Denier type who was actually determined to be mentally ill. In the vast majority of cases it is an alternative reality which doesn't prevent them actually living day to day in society.

[letissier14]

I haven't seen the "Chartists" group mentioned yet. I think they overlap with the BCG, but seem to be a different group.

They are the same group. If you go on the Chartist website it gives you a link to support them, which is in fact the donation page for the BCG

[JohnPCapitalist]

Now in regards to mental illness:

Although most of the adherents are totally bat-shit crazy, that doesn't count as a legitimate mental illness.

However, there are some cases of highly likely mental disorders. Case in point -- David Merrill Van Pelt. For a good portion of his life he was able to complete college, hold down a job, and marry and father a child. Then something snapped. Since that time, he's dewlt in an an alternate reality of his own definition.

I can't think of an other big names in the sovereign/FMOTL/TP movements who have exhibited such a change.

Thus, IMO, technical mental illness is not associated with or found in most of them.

Another one is "David-Wynn: Miller," the guy who invented the bizarre sentence structure for court pleadings that he claims makes it impossible to lie. You can look up examples of this dreck, which looks like the COBOL mainframe programming language from the 1960s. The fascination with language and precision sure looks to me like a case of OCD run completely amok.

Miller is apparently crazy enough that he was recently "court martialed" by a pretend court headed by "Russel-Jay: Gould," one of his acolytes. Miller is apparently too crazy or too decrepit mentally to impose this brilliant invention on an eager humanity. Or something. Video of the rather sad "court martial" proceedings here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXc0shnGGmE

[dannyno]

I first came across pseudolaw in the context of resistance to parking charges/fines. So to me it feels like that was one of the birthplaces of this kind of thing in the UK. But I don't actually have an objective perspective on how things developed.

[He Who Knows]

JohnPCapitalist wrote:

Another one is "David-Wynn: Miller," the guy who invented the bizarre sentence structure ..

Yh, what a dweeb this David: Wynn-Miller is. His name was uttered on the lips of his followers at the 2016 Rekha Patel eviction for which Chrisy Morris, "bailiff baiter", recently "won" his appeal on a technicality.

HeWhoKnows wrote on Chrisy Morris thread:
Morris's whole argument is about whether the High Court Order was valid. He has people like 'Mark-Kishon: Christopher' (student of the eminent bullshitter from America, David Wynn-Miller) advising him on eviction day that the court order was a "photo copy", a "cartoon" a "fraudulent conveyance of language". Here's a reminder on "Teacher v Bailiff part 2 (at 9:12 mins in for those who can't stomach the bullshit for too long)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0_oKiF3L0

Here's 'Mark-Kishon: Christopher' again being a sycophant to his hero, David Wynn Miller - a septuagenarian with dyed black hair spouting bollox about how he’s the King of Hawaii (25mins in) and how he went to college for 17 years and died 8 times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeV8B66MUz4

[DNetolitzky]

Hi folks,

First, thank you again to everyone who responded to my request and provided input on this subject. Since I have now completed and presented the project I was working on I thought it would be perhaps of interest to link to the end product.

And to apologize. You see, I didn't get nearly as much information into the project as I had hoped. I was merrily writing in great detail and length, and then I got an update from the symposium organizers that the maximum size for the paper I was working on was 8000 words. By that point the UK section on its own was almost half that length. Whoops.

Fortunately, I managed to sell the conference organizers on me presenting two papers, one which attempts to construct an integrated overview of what I propose is now essentially a freestanding bizarro system of law, and a second paper on how that pseudolaw system is spreading internationally.

If anyone is interested, the papers can be read here:

A Rebellion of Furious Paper: Pseudolaw as a Revolutionary Legal System - https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... gal_System

A Pathogen Astride the Minds of Men: The Epidemiological History of Pseudolaw -
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Pseudolaw

My review of the pseudolaw phenomenon in the UK in the second paper does not at all fully explore the intriguing range of strangeness and activity there, but hopefully that overview is a reasonable starting point for interested readers. For example, it really hurt cutting out the several paragraphs on JAH. Perhaps I'll get around to preparing a more extensive investigation of the subject in the future.

But that means there's room for someone with some idle time on their hands ... hint hint.

Again, thank you everyone for your assistance - it is very, very much appreciated.

Donald

[Burnaby49]

A Pathogen Astride the Minds of Men: The Epidemiological History of Pseudolaw

What the hell kind of title is that for an article on Freemen? It became clearer when I read the first footnote;

1 Donald J. Netolitzky (Ph.D. Microbiology, University of Alberta, 1995, LL.B.,
University of Alberta, 2005) is the Complex Litigant Management Counsel for the
Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench. The views expressed in this paper are those of the
author, and not those of any other member of the Court of Queen’s Bench, or the
Court itself.

Ph.D Microbiology? WTF? I thought he was a lawyer working for Queen's Bench. A little Googling gives an answer.

Giant linear plasmids of β-lactam antibiotic producing Streptomyces

https://academic.oup.com/femsle/article ... edFrom=PDF

Identification and Characterization of Extrachromosomal Elements from Streptomyces Spp. [microform]

Note - This sucker is a 416 page Ph.D. Thesis.

https://books.google.ca/books/about/Ide ... edir_esc=y

Two small linear plasmids of Streptomyces jumonjinensis

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs ... vPQobjDluY

And on and on. So Donald was a research biologist who, after a long haul getting himself a Ph. D., threw that all aside to start over by getting a law degree and working at the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta and, not incidentally, using his past career to craft seminar paper titles that I have to use a dictionary to decipher. Thanks for making me feel totally inadequate Professor. Being a normal kind of guy I managed to earn just one university degree then milked it for my entire career. A career that never required the use of the words plasmids or lactams.

[Siegfried Shrink]

I look forward to reading the catchily named papers immediately, merely pausing to thank you in advance for your work.

[He Who Knows]

Nice to see Quatloos got a mention in the References
Not nice to see that the UK is clearly the most SovCit-tolerant the world over. Closely followed by Germany. The rest seem to have purged them from their shores.

[Burnaby49]

Nice to see Quatloos got a mention in the References
Not nice to see that the UK is clearly the most SovCit-tolerant the world over. Closely followed by Germany. The rest seem to have purged them from their shores.

Well there's certainly not much left here in Canada. Dean Kory, pathetic as he is, is about the best I've got at the moment. It was essentially an act of desperation to even start a post on Brenden Rothweiler and his sad futile attempt to prevail at Alberta Queen's Bench with the strawman and unilateral contracts. There's nothing left but scraps. We can thank Donald's employer, Queen's Bench for that. Thanks Donald.

[Siegfried Shrink]

The mental health of the country is enhanced by having folk around that even the most depressed will find cheer them up, and those with the lowest self esteem can feel superior to.

It is simply short sighted to clamp down on the like of Neelu and the Expert in FA. Resolute and cheery indifference to their antics is best suited to the national character and game.
As usual, cricket provides an effective metaphor, as it does for all things if you really think about it. Serious threats are met with a cover drive, really non-threats get a leg glance.

It is the lack of cricket as a philosophy and guide that has resulted in the supression of sov-cittery in other lands. If Germany is an exception I am at a bit of a loss. Branntwein und Bratwurst can only explain so much.

[notorial dissent]

At least a good bit of this nonsense predates the 70's by a good bit, and I think most if not all of it can be traced back to the early tax denier/scammers who were doing and selling their fantasies off mimeographs. The anti-banker crowd from back then was the source for a lot of the bank and financial fraud stuff we see now. I do think most if not all of it did start here and then spread to Canada and then got adopted pretty much whole piece in the UK. The quoting of the UCC and US tax codes and the American Declaration of Independence being proof of that of that. I am curioust if Demo's copious files have any dates or originators.

[dannyno]

Isn't there a pretty clear link between the techniques of these 21st century movements and what groups like Posse Comitatus were up to in the US in the 1960s and afterwards - seems to be an obvious continuity of tactics and some of the rhetoric and ideology.

[DNetolitzky]

And on and on. So Donald was a research biologist who, after a long haul getting himself a Ph. D., threw that all aside to start over by getting a law degree and working at the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta and, not incidentally, using his past career to craft seminar paper titles that I have to use a dictionary to decipher. Thanks for making me feel totally inadequate Professor. Being a normal kind of guy I managed to earn just one university degree then milked it for my entire career. A career that never required the use of the words plasmids or lactams.

I'm cold war surplus. If you dig through my publication record from my period as a microbiologist, you'll see I worked for the Canadian military in biodefence. That was supposed to be a career for life, but then the guys on the other side quit.

Ultimately I ended up in law. Frankly, I wish I was still back with the bugs.

What can I say about the paper titles? I was in a whimsical mood the day I was grinding out the abstracts.

Donald

[DNetolitzky]

Nice to see Quatloos got a mention in the References
Not nice to see that the UK is clearly the most SovCit-tolerant the world over. Closely followed by Germany. The rest seem to have purged them from their shores.

Trust me - Quatloos deserves the credit. The truly effective criticism of pseudolaw is not coming from academia, but instead out of the 'hobbyist' community. For example, Quatloos (Burnaby49) was the source that outed Robert Menard for his being arrested and skipping trial. That had no small effect on Menard's reputation here in Canada.

What's the most "SovCit-tolerant" nation out there? If you look at the 'healthiness' of that population, it's probably the US, rather than the UK. There certainly are more pseudolaw practitioners in the US than anywhere else, no matter how limited the evidence we have for that number.

What does seem to set the UK apart is I have not detected much in the way of government or court response to the schemes employed there. In the US gurus are regularly arrested and prosecuted. Why didn't that happen to Peter of England while he was running the WeReBank? I think you're correct, He Who Knows, that it seems officialdom and the media in the UK do not seem terribly interested.

Donald

[DNetolitzky]

At least a good bit of this nonsense predates the 70's by a good bit, and I think most if not all of it can be traced back to the early tax denier/scammers who were doing and selling their fantasies off mimeographs. The anti-banker crowd from back then was the source for a lot of the bank and financial fraud stuff we see now. I do think most if not all of it did start here and then spread to Canada and then got adopted pretty much whole piece in the UK. The quoting of the UCC and US tax codes and the American Declaration of Independence being proof of that of that. I am curioust if Demo's copious files have any dates or originators.

I'd love to see a substantial and comprehensive review of the US pre-2000 period, its players and concepts. The literature I have located shows glimpses of what was circulating at various points, but it's clear there was much more going on.

You're clearly correct notarial dissent that there is earlier stuff, particularly on the fiscal conspiracy end. The fractional reserve banking, banks create money from thin air concepts haven't changed a bit since Sheldon Emery wrote "Billions for the Bankers; Debts for the People" decades ago. Was he the first to come up with that in a layperson friendly sense? No idea.

I pretty much limit my efforts to do a comprehensive historical investigation to what was going on in Canada. I have previously written a paper on that history (here if anyone is curious - https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _in_Canada). At some point I will expand on that report to include additional information I have since collected, but for the most part I did capture what was happening here. One nice thing about studying Canadian pseudolaw is we have a very strong written reported judgment record, so I can say with some confidence that there was not much additional litigation going on prior to 2000, for example attacking tax obligations, that is not in that paper.

Canada is a lot simpler to study than the US, no question about that. Most of what was going on in Canada occurred during the 'Internet Age', so if you know where to dig, there are still remnants to help reconstruct what ideas were in circulation, and who was promoting them.

One of my deep regrets is I have missed the opportunity to interview some of the crucial early figures in the phenomenon, such as Eldon Warman and Tommy "UsuryFree" Kennedy. Hopefully I'll have a chance at some point to speak to others who can comment first hand on what was going on back then, and help fill in the gaps.

Donald