Alfie Evans - FMOTL jump on bandwagon

[letissier14]

I found it interesting that the mother and father now have different legal teams behind them.

Dad Tom is being represented by Paul Diamond from the Christian Legal Centre


http://www.christianconcern.com/defende ... ul-diamond

[Hercule Parrot]

Thomas Evans

But if my son dies now, I will instruct lawyers to start private prosecution of every single person who helps to make that happen.

Remember it is not good enough, in law or in conscience, to say that you simply followed orders.

There is a world of difference between giving up hopeless efforts to save life and taking active steps to bring about death.

You say that to withdraw life support from a sick child is a humane medical act – I say it is murder.

You say that using force to prevent me from trying to save his life is no more than upholding the law – I say it is murder.

You say you are acting in the best interests of the child. Perhaps King Herod used that phrase, too.

I will not allow you to kill my son just because a bunch of smug lawyers in London has concluded this would be good for him.

If you make my son die tomorrow, you will face justice from a jury of your twelve countrymen in this word, and a terrible judgement of God in the world to come.

The doctors will not be concerned by legal threats. CPS would undoubtedly exercise their power to take over any private prosecution and immediately discontinue in the public interest. However the escalating rhetoric and risk of violence is another matter. Religious fanatics and self-styled child protectors are flocking into this tragedy, the crowd is being urged towards dangerous conduct.

[JimUk1]

Indeed HP.

It’s seems logic and reason are no longer applicable.

This is turning into a Medieval religious lynch mob and the ironic thing is even the pope seems to be secretly stoking the fire.

Question is, how long before Ceylon and the likes turn up?

I’m surprised Nealu hasn’t, where there are “baby killings” she’s naturally there serving papers normally (and shouting abuse).

[aesmith]

What's the actual legal basis for preventing them going to Italy? Is the child in care, effectively, so the parent's have no control? Personally I can't understand why they shouldn't got to Italy. Even though I am convinced by what I've read that there can be no recovery, it would at least leave the parents knowing that every possible medical effort had been made.

[ArthurWankspittle]

What's the actual legal basis for preventing them going to Italy? Is the child in care, effectively, so the parent's have no control? Personally I can't understand why they shouldn't got to Italy. Even though I am convinced by what I've read that there can be no recovery, it would at least leave the parents knowing that every possible medical effort had been made.

I'm wondering if the child has his own representation which is not uncommon in situations like this. The only argument for not moving the child that I can see it that the treatment will be the same in Italy therefore there is not point in subjecting him to the trauma of moving just to get the same treatment. Though, like you, I don't see what the problem is if that's what they want, unless it's only what dad wants and mum isn't onboard.

[JimUk1]

What's the actual legal basis for preventing them going to Italy? Is the child in care, effectively, so the parent's have no control? Personally I can't understand why they shouldn't got to Italy. Even though I am convinced by what I've read that there can be no recovery, it would at least leave the parents knowing that every possible medical effort had been made.

The doctors are acting in the best interest and the parents are parents are far as I can understand.

From what I can gather, to get him to Italy may result in an increase in his sizeures, which is the basis of the argument for not taking him.

The full judgement is here-
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content ... -evans.pdf

[daveBeeston]

For me the reason behind not allowing the parents to take the young lad to Italy is there is little to zero chance of the treatment causing any improvement and the increased risk of seizures in flight is high.

If the legal system allows them to go to Italy and it doesn't work then due to the precedent set by allowing them to go the legal system cannot stop the parents from pursuing further riskier treatment further afield.

Those advising this family should be ashamed of themselves, they are using this families plight to further their own gain and by dragging out the inevitable they are in my opinion guilty of abusing the family and the child, the parents are going to be left abandoned by their new "friends" at the time they need support the most and that is despicable.

[longdog]

If the legal system allows them to go to Italy and it doesn't work then due to the precedent set by allowing them to go the legal system cannot stop the parents from pursuing further riskier treatment further afield.

Would it actually set a precedent? I thought part of the principle of having the courts decide these matters is the fact that each case is different and has to be considered on it's own 'merits'.

[Siegfried Shrink]

Having read the entire judgement I cannot disagree with the Judge's conclusions. They are measured, polite and persuasive, and the medical evidence makes it clear that they are maintaining a body with no functioning brain apart from the most basic autonomic functions.

It is something of a testimonial to our society that so much effort should be expended in the circumstances, firstly in attempting to treat the baby and second in attempting a just resolution.

[daveBeeston]

Would it actually set a precedent? I thought part of the principle of having the courts decide these matters is the fact that each case is different and has to be considered on it's own 'merits'.

I think it would set a precedent in this case, if a judge decides now that he can be taken out of the country for treatment and the outcome is as suspected and the treatment fails, once the family return home to the UK the judges couldn't really stop the parents from trying even more risky treatment from further afield that could cause further harm or distress to the child.

I really feel for the parents and i can understand them wanting to exhaust every option available, but they have been coerced into legal action by groups and individuals who are only interested in their own cause and these people have bamboozled a vulnerable family with false hope and continue to egg them on with ever more ridiculous accusations and false hope.

[JimUk1]

Having read the entire judgement I cannot disagree with the Judge's conclusions. They are measured, polite and persuasive, and the medical evidence makes it clear that they are maintaining a body with no functioning brain apart from the most basic autonomic functions.

It is something of a testimonial to our society that so much effort should be expended in the circumstances, firstly in attempting to treat the baby and second in attempting a just resolution.

Nicely put and very correct.

The NHS may not be perfect, but they have spent an awful lot of time, money and care into making sure they’re making the correct decision.

I can imagine that panel of doctors alone didn’t take a day to reach a conclusion and they even invited other doctors from other countries to practice their expertise also, that to me is indicative of how much effort had been put in to save just one young mans life.

It’s such a shame they can’t.

[Wakeman52]

http://www.christianconcern.com/defende ... ul-diamond

This is the lawyer Tom Evans has been represented by. I will let the page speak for itself.

[Comrade Sharik]

So he's worried about Sharia law but wants to impose a theocracy because human rights are a secular plot?

How very medieval of him.

[AndyPandy]

I'm presuming that Alfie is now a Ward of Court and has his own representation?

[mufc1959]

Latest news - Alfie Evans' father urges supporters to leave them alone.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... y-allowed/

[Hercule Parrot]

Latest news - Alfie Evans' father urges supporters to leave them alone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... y-allowed/

If he's sincere, that is a remarkably dignified and creditable position for a young father experiencing a dreadful and tragic loss.

But I note that the parents' new hope is that Alfie can return to the family home, where they will no doubt ask the authorities and media to respect their privacy. Coincidentally, the family's lawyers recently told the court that a military air ambulance is on standby to fly him to Italy, beyond the practical reach of the UK Courts. A military air ambulance can of course load a patient in seconds, after a momentary touchdown on any convenient patch of land.

[longdog]

Latest news - Alfie Evans' father urges supporters to leave them alone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... y-allowed/

If he's sincere, that is a remarkably dignified and creditable position for a young father experiencing a dreadful and tragic loss.

But I note that the parents' new hope is that Alfie can return to the family home, where they will no doubt ask the authorities and media to respect their privacy. Coincidentally, the family's lawyers recently told the court that a military air ambulance is on standby to fly him to Italy, beyond the practical reach of the UK Courts. A military air ambulance can of course load a patient in seconds, after a momentary touchdown on any convenient patch of land.

I very much doubt the Italian government would do anything contrary to a British court order let alone involving a military aircraft of any description. It would be diplomatically disastrous.

[Hercule Parrot]

I very much doubt the Italian government would do anything contrary to a British court order let alone involving a military aircraft of any description. It would be diplomatically disastrous.

Indeed. We have no evidence that this military air ambulance exists, or is actually on standby, or where. It may actually be an ex-military helicopter, or an ex-military crew, or entirely imaginary. And they didn't actually say it was an Italian aircraft, so it might be the Papal Guards with an Airfix Sopwith Camel. It might be a freelance bush pilot, a fanatical Jesuit on a unicycle or a born-again millionaire's Lear Jet.

Nonetheless, I suspect there is more to come. And some of the family's supporters do, too....

[AndyPandy]

I very much doubt the Italian government would do anything contrary to a British court order let alone involving a military aircraft of any description. It would be diplomatically disastrous.

Indeed. We have no evidence that this military air ambulance exists, or is actually on standby, or where. It may actually be an ex-military helicopter, or an ex-military crew, or entirely imaginary. And they didn't actually say it was an Italian aircraft, so it might be the Papal Guards with an Airfix Sopwith Camel. It might be a freelance bush pilot, a fanatical Jesuit on a unicycle or a born-again millionaire's Lear Jet.

Nonetheless, I suspect there is more to come. And some of the family's supporters do, too....

I sincerely, hope they don't get him home and then try to take him out of the Country.

[longdog]

As far as I know he's been taken off a ventilator but remains on oxygen and feeding tube etc. If the hospital agree to him being taken home he would still need their support and I suspect round the clock nursing care. I doubt he could be taken anywhere without full ambulance support and no ambulance firm or NHS ambulance is going to breach the order of the court.