ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[grimreaper]

I just called the Office of the U.S. Trustee in Los Angeles - a division of the U.S. Justice Department - inquiring whether a Trustee had been appointed.

I was told "I'll transfer you to the Woodland Hills office - that's their case"

I left a message on the voicemail of Gabe Rodriguez requesting a callback.

I assume we'll know more shortly.

Thanks!

[grimreaper]

Two more entries appeared on the involuntary bankruptcy docket: a stipulation and Notice of Lodgment. In the first, it states that NASI does not contest the allegations in the petition and that they consent to the order of relief. It's signed by their attorney, Henry N. Jannol.

Does anyone else find it odd that NASI would consent?

Wow..GREAT FIND WEBHICK! Looks like NASI isn't contesting the involuntary BK...period. So now we have the BK going forward and we'll have to see how the SEC responds.

[ATM'd]

I just got a call back from the U.S. Trustee's office in Woodland Hills. I was told a judge needed to sign the order to appoint a trustee, and that that should happen in the next day or two.He did mention that NASI had consented to the Bankruptcy filing.

I asked if he knew anything about criminal charges, and he said he couldn't comment or speculate.

[grimreaper]

I just got a call back from the U.S. Trustee's office in Woodland Hills. I was told a judge needed to sign the order to appoint a trustee, and that that should happen in the next day or two.He did mention that NASI had consented to the Bankruptcy filing.

I asked if he knew anything about criminal charges, and he said he couldn't comment or speculate.

Thanks..so now we will have a trustee assigned. Then the marshaling of any potential assets can begin. SEC is still involved, so it will be interesting to see if it's a private trustee assigned by the court or a DOJ receivership.

[Lost Income]

Seems strange that Joel & Ed would just roll over to accept bankruptcy and let all their biz and family assets get sold off to help pay for investor losses, unless they have previously stashed monies somewhere for themselves that they don't expect anyone to find?

[grimreaper]

Seems strange that Joel & Ed would just roll over to accept bankruptcy and let all their biz and family assets get sold off to help pay for investor losses, unless they have previously stashed monies somewhere for themselves that they don't expect anyone to find?

They really have no choice if this is indeed a Ponzi. If any money is stashed away it will, in all probability, be found and seized.

[notorial dissent]

Unless I misread the application, the bankruptcy is against NASI, a corporation. So if it does proceed to bankruptcy the only thing it will reach are the assets of the corporation, assuming there are any tangible assets left at this point, which I'm not. The point that comes to mind on the bankruptcy to me is that it is only being filed by three people it seems, and if there are no longer any corporate assets the actual bankruptcy isn't going to amount to much. The fact that the corporation DIDN'T fight the petition does not instill me with confidence either. If the SEC or the FTC get involved in this things could change dramatically, but that is the big if.

[grimreaper]

Unless I misread the application, the bankruptcy is against NASI, a corporation. So if it does proceed to bankruptcy the only thing it will reach are the assets of the corporation, assuming there are any tangible assets left at this point, which I'm not. The point that comes to mind on the bankruptcy to me is that it is only being filed by three people it seems, and if there are no longer any corporate assets the actual bankruptcy isn't going to amount to much. The fact that the corporation DIDN'T fight the petition does not instill me with confidence either. If the SEC or the FTC get involved in this things could change dramatically, but that is the big if.

Three people is the THRESHOLD for filing INVOLUNTARY BK, so that's *ALL* they needed to trigger it.

Claw Back Provisions in the Bankruptcy Act

"Bankruptcy Code provisions known as "clawbacks" allow bankruptcy trustees to seek the return of funds distributed to investors, even from those who were fortunate enough to have turned a profit or redeemed their investments before the schemes - See more at: http://www.hklaw.com/publications/Ponzi ... w5APX.dpuf

http://www.hklaw.com/files/Publication/ ... /54301.PDF

While the Ponzi scheme perpetrator is a natural first
stop in the effort to recapture misdirected investor money,
it is not the only stop. In many cases, especially bankruptcy
cases and cases brought by SIPC, which are administered
by the bankruptcy court, the appointed trustee will also
seek to get back money that was distributed to the victims
of the Ponzi scheme.
The underlying philosophy behind actions against
defrauded investors is that:
1. some of those defrauded investors received distributions
from the money provided by other defrauded investors,
and
2. the playing field should be leveled so that all are
defrauded to roughly the same degree.

[notorial dissent]

What you say is true, in theory, in practice, that is a whole other matter. A great lot is going to depend on what they find when they get in to the books and how the money shook out.

[grimreaper]

What you say is true, in theory, in practice, that is a whole other matter. A great lot is going to depend on what they find when they get in to the books and how the money shook out.

Yes, but there are *DEEP POCKETS* for the trustee to go after...and they will do so.

BTW, your SIGNATURE at the bottom says it all with respect to those who are *IN THE MONEY* on this alleged ponzi.

[notorial dissent]

What you say is true, in theory, in practice, that is a whole other matter. A great lot is going to depend on what they find when they get in to the books and how the money shook out.

Yes, but there are *DEEP POCKETS* for the trustee to go after...and they will do so.
You keep making all the claims, yet nothing of substance to back it up.
BTW, your SIGNATURE at the bottom says it all with respect to those who are *IN THE MONEY* on this alleged ponzi.Huh!!!!

[grimreaper]

You keep making all the claims, yet nothing of substance to back it up.

Yes there are those who have made money....I know them personally. I CAN back that up, but not at liberty to do so.
BTW, your SIGNATURE at the bottom says it all with respect to those who are *IN THE MONEY* on this alleged ponzi.Huh!!!!

LOL..I meant for all who made money on this scheme and think they're EXEMPT, will soon LEARN they >>CAN'T ESCAPE the LAW. It's an analogy of sorts.

[snookered]

Hello fellow fools.

FYI

An investor just asked me for Joel and Ed's home addresses to send a certified letter. I am a Realtor, so it is easy for me to locate that information.

Interesting thing that I found, was that as of 9/25/14, Ed put his house solely in his wife, Beverly's name. It also appears that he also paid off the small mortgage that they had on the house. Interesting. This just happened in the past week.

Joel's title for his house, shows no recent changes. it is still in both he and his wife's name. I will continue to monitor it for any title changes. His current mortgage is also very small.

[grimreaper]

Hello fellow fools.

FYI

An investor just asked me for Joel and Ed's home addresses to send a certified letter. I am a Realtor, so it is easy for me to locate that information.

Interesting thing that I found, was that as of 9/25/14, Ed put his house solely in his wife, Beverly's name. It also appears that he also paid off the small mortgage that they had on the house. Interesting. This just happened in the past week.

Joel's title for his house, shows no recent changes. it is still in both he and his wife's name. I will continue to monitor it for any title changes. His current mortgage is also very small.

Thanks for the info. There is nowhere for Joel or Wishner to hide. They're not a match for what is about to rain down on their parade. They simply will be out gunned on every front. It's pure folly for Gillis to think he can run or hide assets. Not only that, he will be prosecuted for fraud *a la Madoff*. He's DEAD MEAT. Of course, all my humble opinion.

[snookered]

Hello fellow fools.

FYI

An investor just asked me for Joel and Ed's home addresses to send a certified letter. I am a Realtor, so it is easy for me to locate that information.

Interesting thing that I found, was that as of 9/25/14, Ed put his house solely in his wife, Beverly's name. It also appears that he also paid off the small mortgage that they had on the house. Interesting. This just happened in the past week.

Joel's title for his house, shows no recent changes. it is still in both he and his wife's name. I will continue to monitor it for any title changes. His current mortgage is also very small.

Thanks for the info. There is nowhere for Joel or Wishner to hide. They're not a match for what is about to rain down on their parade. They simply will be out gunned on every front. It's pure folly for Gillis to think he can run or hide assets. Not only that, he will be prosecuted for fraud *a la Madoff*. He's DEAD MEAT. Of course, all my humble opinion.

I'm sure you are right. However, we may get nothing more than the satisfaction of watching that go down. I wish I was a fly on their wall right now.

[Tednewsom]

I'm betting they will stick around and say, "We've never done anything illegal." OK, sure, they'll be lying through their dentures, but they've got 18 years of practice at that.

Hey... I wonder... co-mingling of funds? If NASI dough mysteriously found its way into places where it shouldn't belong, like, say, another yacht, or beachfront property in Belize that has nothing to do with ATMs... does that then open the gate for recovery of what would otherwise be considered "personal funds"? Hmm. Anyone?

[notorial dissent]

It really shouldn't come as a surprise that Ed did the title changes and what not, what is surprising is that it took this long. It's called an exist strategy, and it doesn't sound like he's really done much planning on this one. It does mean he is, belatedly, attempting to protect his assets. The multi million dollar question is going to be how well he managed it.

It still comes down to the problem/question of where and how the money went, and that can have a big effect on what happens ultimately. Remember, it is still possible that the “boys” lost the money on some less than viable scheme they got roped in to, I’ve seen it happen too many times, where the scammers got taken by an even better scammer. Or their book keeping is so bad and the paper trail is so poor that they can’t figure out where the money all went. Lots of possibilities, and none of them positive for the ones holding the short end of the stick. There are just too many variables right at the moment to predict which way this is going to go. Not well, is the only certainty.

[Lost Income]

Following is my understanding of the current situation per all posts above. Please chime in if anyone has solid info to suggest otherwise.

Currently, Joel & Ed will likely soon be agreeing to bankruptcy which will be processed like a typical bankruptcy selling off company assets to pay debts & investors. If during the bankruptcy process it's discovered that all the ATM's which need to be sold, are not owned by NAS, then the process could quickly proceed as fraud or ponzi to sell off both company and Joel/Ed's assets and attempt clawbacks. So far fraud or ponzi potential has not become glaring enough to the SEC for them to charge Joel & Ed with this.

[webhick]

Interesting thing that I found, was that as of 9/25/14, Ed put his house solely in his wife, Beverly's name. It also appears that he also paid off the small mortgage that they had on the house. Interesting. This just happened in the past week.

IIRC, this is something that Ed has to disclose in the bankruptcy and if he doesn't, well...fines and criminal charges could occur. It also won't stop the trustee from going after the house, especially since he transferred the asset shortly after the involuntary bankruptcy was filed.

Ed & Joel may not have had exit strategies because things imploded too quickly.

[webhick]

It just dawned on me that Ed transferring the house may not matter at all since this is a corporate bankruptcy. Still looks fishy, though.