ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[The Observer]

To Ted Newsom............I still wonder what is this all to you? Could it be unrequited love? I think you need to get a life and stay out of other peoples business.

Oh, it could be. Or, like the time I saved your ass by doing due diligence on Mr. Lawsuit, it could simply be me being concerned about someone getting ripped off by a charming, fast-talking crook.

If she loses her house, Frances-- you will be responsible. She trusted you.

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce "investor," also known as Ms. Frances McCafferty, the chief sales person for NAS for approximately the last ten years. Hey, maybe even 15. As I have said several times (without naming her), I think Frances is personally smart, honest and trustworthy. However, I think these recent developments show her to be yet another victim of a couple of fast-talking con men. And as I have also said repeatedly, a good con artist loves using smart and honest people as a shield.

Are you saying that Ms. McCafferty was employed and paid by NAS to sell their product to others? If so, I would think that the motivation for her posting here (under a pseudonym no less) has more to do with her own personal desire of keeping her paychecks coming in rather than with an honest belief that NAS' reputation needs to be defended. I wonder how she would feel about that reputation if NAS had bounced her paychecks.

[Lost Income]

Question for 10 yr Investor - Regarding the info above and your relationship with Joel, please can you have Joel verify that the FBI is also involved, and how he knows that the SEC plans to make "everyone whole" and then sell off the company, and advise us?

Given your detailed information, you seem to be the only person that is able to still contact Joel & Ed, as they have disappeared for providing any meaningful info to the rest of us.

Thanks

[Tednewsom]

Note to LostIncome & Others: "investor" and "10YearInvestor" are two separate people.

[Tednewsom]

Are you saying that Ms. McCafferty was employed and paid by NAS to sell their product to others?

That would be "Yes." That's how she has made her living for a decade. I understand she has also invested a great deal of her own money into the leasebacks, in genuine good faith.

If so, I would think that the motivation for her posting here (under a pseudonym no less) has more to do with her own personal desire of keeping her paychecks coming in rather than with an honest belief that NAS' reputation needs to be defended. I wonder how she would feel about that reputation if NAS had bounced her paychecks.

I would hope she answers the question of motivation herself. I suspect -- in view of both her personal loyalty to the company's principals and the fact that she has invested a great deal of her own money in the scheme -- that she genuinely believes in it and is genuinely convinced that all the troubles are the fault of others.

Now if only she genuinely reads all the information on this thread with an alert and open mind, and genuinely understands the enormity of the situation...

[webhick]

peace

I see you deleted the content of your post AFTER people had responded to it.

Deceptive behavior. Welcome to moderated mode.

[MarvinGardens]

I detect a note of panic in in the voices of those on this thread who are invested, particularly those who have taken commissions (whatever Gillis may call them) to bring others into the program.

And that is reasonable. In similar cases, SEC and in some cases combined authorities, have required all investors to return all monies received as dividends, rental payments, interest or whatever term is used for every contract. I know of one individual who would be required to pay back over 15 years of payouts which he spent, lived off part of them. And who pyramided much of those payouts into new contracts.

If you have referred people to NASI and received compensation, SEC will almost certainly require you to pay back all those commissions (which is what they are) under a provision called clawback which has become quite popular the last 10 years.

In addition, there are fines for selling unregistered securities if you are licensed, or for selling any securities at all, registered or not, if you are not yourself licensed.

The reason for this is that many vehicles sold as securities simply don't pass muster and the registering of them requires oversight. This weeds out the really bad ones so they are not offered to the general public. Ponzi schemes fit that description.

The broker/dealer, clearing firm, and registered representative must all be licensed for similar reasons. You don't want a serial grifter to operate and the licensing procedure will usually turn up his record.

If this organization is determined to be out of compliance, or an outright fraud, the people who are crowding new money into the tent will certainly be named in any civil lawsuit by purchasers. If you led a friend to NASI and NASI turns out to be a Ponzi scheme, you will have to give them their money back if NASI can't. After all, your commissions were taken out of their money and so were all the gains in every transaction. Clawback makes sense.

You will quickly find out what your friendship is worth since most civil attorneys disregard the notion of friendship as a quaint concept and you will be considered another source of funds. If NASI is an out and out criminal fraud you will also face criminal investigation. You will need a criminal attorney who is deeply familiar with securities law. They are few and expensive.

So if we detect a note of hysteria in "investor"s posts there is a legitimate reason for it.

[JamesVincent]

peace

I see you deleted the content of your post AFTER people had responded to it.

Deceptive behavior. Welcome to moderated mode.

BAD move, getting on Web's bad side.

[worried]

peace

I see you deleted the content of your post AFTER people had responded to it.

Deceptive behavior. Welcome to moderated mode.

BAD move, getting on Web's bad side.

I think to be fair to Zenbeing9, I realized after I had responded that I was thinking of ANOTHER poster when I was typing my snippy comments. Apologies to Zenbeing9, if he/she cares what I think

[JamesVincent]

Maybe Joel and Co. thought they were clever enough to keep this "investment vehicle" running for a long time and that they had a sure-fire plan to ensure that the checks keep coming in. The problem is that these schemes never plan for a rainy day, a downturn in the economy, natural or man-made disasters, or a change in how the world does business. So it is inevitable that one day the whole house of cards collapse.

Which is what happened to Madoff. The recession, followed by the inevitable decline in investors, and the decline in profits from the actual investments he had made, destroyed any chance of keeping the whole scam afloat.

[JamesVincent]

http://aolanswers.com/questions/nationw ... 9?#answers

[worried]

I found a website I had stumbled across a few months ago and tried to find again sometime later:

http://www.propertytribes.com/due-dilig ... -6772.html

I found this one by searching "Nationwide Automated Systems ponzi", and this time it was near the top, other people must have found this too. This story highlights what I was talking about at the time: people who have been actively trolling and recruiting for NASI (to get the bonuses of course) REALLY, REALLY need to be proactive in cooperating I would think, otherwise, you sure look guilty to me, and I would think the authorities would think the same.

[Tednewsom]

http://aolanswers.com/questions/nationw ... 9?#answers

From that site, a response dated one hour ago:

They USED to have a AAA rating! I actually have a copy of the rating from when I became an investor in 2007. I suspect that they have cancelled their membership because they know that everyone was going to complain. The company is DONE! Wishner sat across his desk from me yesterday during my surprise visit and told me so. These guys are going to JAIL, not only for not filing with the SEC properly, but other fraud that Wishner also admitted to me yesterday where he and Joel took in more than 6 million $'s from NEW investors, cashed their checks. With that money, they paid we investors the last check we will ever get from Nationwide in August. Nationwide stole these new investors money AFTER THEY HAD BEEN ISSUED THE SUBPOENA! That right there is FRAUD! They are going to jail!

Holy cats.

[webhick]

That's hilarious. They couldn't have had a AAA Rating years ago because that's not even a rating. It goes up to A+. NASI has no rating, which means that it never had a rating.

[webhick]

Ah, I get it. They have a AAA rating with the BCA, not the BBB like it says elsewhere.

[snookered]

I DO have a copy from 2007 of a BBB rating on these guys. Wether it was AAA or A plus, I'm not sure. I just know that they had the highest rating possible. However, when you check the BBB today, there is no record of NASI. They saw this coming and cancelled their subscription to BBB. BTW, it is a subscription based biz, the BBB.

I also have a copy of the subpoena that NASI were issued in June. Ed Wishner gave it to me and other disgruntled investors at his office yesterday. It's a very long list of documents that the SEC is requesting going back to 2010. This does not look good for the crooks.

Then there were 3 young's guys in Ed's office along with me, all brand new investors in the last 2 months. Collectively, they just invested over $6 mil in the past 2 months with NASI. Turns out, NASI had already been subpoenaed by the SEC, and they still took the new investor $ and cashed their checks. They all received their very first check, and they bounced.

So very sad.... Ed was very smug about all this going on. Zero emotion, no sign of remorse. I looked him in the eye and asked "is my money gone" He looked me right back in the eye and said "not yet".

This is when I knew for sure.... this deal is dead. Many, many people will have their lives destroyed by this, including me. I will likely have to sell my house.

I'm new to this forum and not adept at this sort of thing. Are you able to upload documents to this page? I am happy to share what I know with everyone and the doc might be insightful for everyone.

Such a sad few days this has been.

[Tednewsom]

You may need to upload images onto a third-party server like imageshack,

https://imageshack.us/

-- then copy & paste the address given on that page into the reply box here. Click on "Img" in the menu boxes at the top of the reply box... or hit the "URL box -- -- and paste the Imageshack address between the two bracketed elements.

[worried]

Somebody called my house this morning and told my wife I was involved in a scam and that she would be arrested if she didn't tell them where I was....

Does that sound like honest businessmen? .... or CRIMINALS?....

Now tell me why I should keep my empathy? Go ahead post more b.s. about what nice, respected businessmen these people are.

Just to be clear. I emailed and called the SEC and FBI contacts that I have and it wasn't them that called my house. They would never operate that way of course. Just last week 'poorronald' got a little too insistent in 'personal messages' that I call him on the phone... coincidence?...
Who are you people? Why do you even bother now? It's all over the internet, the scam is exposed. Even 'investor' hasn't posted anymore snide, illogical, accusing, self-righteous comments.

Now, just maybe a bunch of you victims will now understand why we have organizations like the SEC and their rules. Don't you wish you had been more concerned about the 'unregistered securities' question that some of you argued against over the last 5 years this discussion topic has been going?... How can you NOT learn something from this?...

[webhick]

Yes, the BBB is a membership based organization, but businesses who aren't members can still be rated.

NASI is listed with the BBB with no rating. Considering the factors the BBB uses to rate companies, I'm not seeing any reason why they'd go from rated to nothing. They should still have a rating, even if it's not as good as it was.

ETA: I'm not saying I don't believe you, just that this doesn't make any sense.

[Lost Income]

Many thanks to those whom went to Ed's office to get the current true situation. I had talked with Ed Tues on the phone, when he said a decision would be made by the SEC this week. I'm a new investor and so is a friend of mine, so does anyone have a feeling for the possibility of those whom lost money to get it back? It's my understanding that in the Madoff situation, after selling everything Madoff owned, that people whom lost money got some of it back.

Thanks for everyone's help!!

[Tednewsom]

... people whom lost money got some of it back.

"Some" being the operative word. I suppose it's a minor consolation to eventually receive two cents on the dollar, five of six years later, after everything has been sorted out. I would strongly recommend not being too optimistic.