Lance Armstrong

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Lambkin
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Lance Armstrong

Postby Lambkin » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:49 am

Speaking of miscellaneous frauds and scams, sporting fraud is one near and dear to my heart. Sporting fraud is not a crime in the US, although it is in some other countries such as Italy. As a follower of professional cycling and someone generally interested in athletic doping, it came as no particular surprise that the anti-doping authorities have finally announced their investigation into the former US Postal Service team, and their intent to sanction Lance Armstrong, his team director Johan Bruyneel, and a handful of physicians who continue to work with the team (now known as Team RadioShack Nissan Trek). USADA has not revealed its evidence yet, but for anyone interested in analysis of Armstrong's performance history, I recommend the following article:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interview ... l-ashenden

For me the case will become interesting or not based on the evidence USADA produces to support its allegations. We know that several former teammates have implicated Armstrong, and the question is whether there is strong evidence backing up those statements.

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notorial dissent
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby notorial dissent » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:22 pm

Or someone who really really doesn't like Armstrong, of which I am told there are legions, and carries a serious grudge for some unknown reason.

I personally don't have any water to carry one way or another on this matter, but it just strikes me funny, that with all the rumors and innuendo that has gone on over the years, that as CKP so rightly points out, the ones with the most ax to grind haven't seemed to be able to find anything of substance, if you'll pardon the pun.

And the only “witnesses” against him seem to be disgruntled former team mates or also rans.

If he has been playing the system, then he is incredibly good at it, and I don’t think that is all that likely, personally.
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Lambkin
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby Lambkin » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:43 am

notorial dissent wrote:If he has been playing the system, then he is incredibly good at it, and I don’t think that is all that likely, personally.[/color][/b]

I appreciate hearing the views of you and our Cap'n, since you are presumably not professional cycling addicts and so have a fairly neutral view of the matter. I think he is probably a doper, and I have a similar but different view compared to you: I think the US Postal squad had an exceptionally good doping program, putting the rest to shame - I suspect they brought hitherto unknown standards of professionalism to their athletic doping program. One of the things I find especially interesting is that numerous people spent years on the Postal squad without a doping violation, and then after leaving the team they tested positive. That group includes Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Manuel Beltran, and Roberto Heras. My guess is that they had experienced the quality of the US Postal doping program but were not able to replicate it once they left the team. Far from being also-rans, they were central to Armstrong's success and won a lot of major races. They also won races at a time when the anti-doping efforts were becoming increasingly sophisticated. I find their admissions credible.

Of course these are just my suspicions, and it will be more interesting when some of USADA's evidence is presented.

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notorial dissent
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby notorial dissent » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:48 am

True, I have no dog to hunt in this at all, so all I can go on is what I can see. I just find it interesting that nothing showed up until after they had left the original team, now this could well be because they weren't as good at covering it up afterwards as they had been before which is possible, or they may have gotten so used to winning, and having aged were no longer able to continue at their old level, and the only way they could maintain it was using the drugs. I just don't know.
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby JamesVincent » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 am

During the time period of Team Postal's wins, at least most of them, I was racing bikes as a hobby and very, very interested in Lance Armstrong. I remember hearing about all the allegations of his doping and everything else. I remember thinking at the time that France was just pissy since an American won their precious race more times then any Frenchman did, and still do. When the stories broke it was all, a friend of a friend of a friend of a cousin said Armstrong was popping pills. Evidence? None. Proof? None. Your also talking about a man that survived an extremely nasty bout of cancer. There have been very few people in this world, ever, that were as determined as him to live and win. And also considering that in the early part of his career the drugs he was accused of taking didnt exist if I remember correctly. And considering France itself investigated him rigorously, to prove to the world that the only way a non- Frenchman could do what he did was by cheating, I seriously doubt that theres much there. I also did not see any indications in the articles linked or in other articles I read whether or not any of the maybes could have been from the drugs he was still taking for his cancer when he won in '99. Is it possible he was riding dirty? Anythings possible. Do I personally believe it? Not until I see someone test and verify that doesnt have a dog in that race.
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notorial dissent
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby notorial dissent » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:52 am

I have to go with CKB on this, if the French, who inarguably had the biggest grudge in this, if you want to call it that, not only couldn't but didn't find anything as hard as they tried.... I have to be more than a little skeptical of the charges as a whole.
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby Arthur Rubin » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:24 am

In theory, the testing technology could have improved; on the other hand, it is conceivable that the timing of samples and when the preservative was added might also simulate the result of a positive result under the new tests.
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Lambkin
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby Lambkin » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:34 am

Armstrong sued the USADA today and was promptly smacked down by the judge
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/sport ... arges.html
Within seven hours of Lance Armstrong’s filing of a lawsuit Monday that sought to block the United States Anti-Doping Agency from punishing him for doping violations it has charged him with, a federal judge in Austin, Tex., struck down the complaint, dealing Armstrong a swift and smarting blow in his hometown.

Sam Sparks, of United States District Court, chastised Armstrong’s lawyers for submitting an 80-plus page complaint filled with allegations that “were totally irrelevant to Armstrong’s claims.”
“This court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong’s desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification of Defendants, by sifting through 80 mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of factual material relevant to his claims,” Sparks said.

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JamesVincent
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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby JamesVincent » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:57 am

Considering some of the recent events I thought we might want to revisit this.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/headlines/20130125-lance-armstrong-s-attorneys-say-he-s-unlikely-to-meet-with-usada.ece

AUSTIN — Lance Armstrong's lawyers say the cyclist will talk more about drug use in the sport, just likely not to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that led the effort to strip him of his Tour de France titles.


Whether or not he has admitted to doing it, which he has, it still seems almost like a witch hunt. As if pursuing Armstrong is the only thing they have to do in the effort of "cleaning up cycling".
Lift me up above this, the flames and the ashes,
Lift me up and help me to fly away.
Lift me up above this, the broken, the empty,
Lift me up and help me to fly away,
Lift me up!

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Re: Lance Armstrong

Postby Flatulating Bovine » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 am

I have to disagree with ND on this one. I too think that LA doesn't warrant the level of attention he's gotten for this. Or the level of vitriol. And, I think if they don't catch a cyclist in real time, then it should become a non-issue as it really sucks for the sport to have a 10 year retroactive witch hunt play out every year or two. (That and it just encourages more dbags to become road bikers, and trust me, there are plenty of those already out there!)

But as to whether he did it, Floyd Landis' information just has the ring of truth. He knows details that aren't in public record, which LA has never denied, which explain how it could have been done. Then, LA's very bad attempt at damage control avec Oprah, reeked of evasion. As a lawyer, I would have sensed deception very clearly if I got those responses to my questions.

He did it.


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