WTP takes on Obama

[fortinbras]

Just so it won't be completely lost in the shuffle, it turns out that there is a lawsuit, ostensibly a Freedom of Information case aimed at the US Dept of State and the US Dept of Homeland Security, in the US District Court of the District of Columbia, nr. 08-CV-2234, brought by Christopher Earl Strunk, a New Yorker who has brought a number of birfer-type lawsuits. He has a segment of the website TheRightSideOfLife.com - which seems entirely devoted to a number of different birfer lawsuits and argument - but this one is not listed among his projects.

And maybe there's a reason he leaves it out. I haven't seen the complaint filed but I have seen the Answer submitted by the Deputy Assistant Attorney-General on behalf of both the Depts of State and Homeland Security and it is evident that Strunk is suing to compel those departments to disgorge documents they supposedly possess about Obama's birth and citizenship (Homeland Sec took over in 2002 the responsibility formerly with the DOJ for naturalization and immigration and the Dept of State is responsible for passports). The Deputy Atty-Gen's Answer is found (via Pacer) at:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-conte ... answer.pdf

In this official US govt response to birfer pleadings, date April 23, 2009, the US govt expressly and unambiguously insists that Pres. Obama is a natural born citizen of the US, and that he was born in Hawaii, and denies that he ever was a citizen of Indonesia. Also denied, strenuously and unambiguously, are the claims that Lolo Soetoro (Mama Obama's second husband) was the Pres's father by either birth or adoption, that Pres. Obama was ever a practicing Muslim, and that Pres. Obama was born anywhere outside Hawaii. These points are repeated throughout the Answer. At the end the govt asks for the suit to be dismissed because Strunk is seeking documents not within the Freedom of Information Act's power to disclose (personal - and personnel - data such as birth certificates and credit reports are not disclosable), and that the claims against Homeland Security are moot (meaning, probably, that Pres. Obama never had any "issues" over his citizenship with the former Immigration & Naturalization Service).

As this is the federal govt's official position, and presumably based on some investigation of the birfer claims, I think this is significant.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...

As this is the federal govt's official position, and presumably based on some investigation of the birfer claims, I think this is significant.

What other position could the federal government take?

The whole argument against him being a citizen is really silly, but what these bozos haven't answered thus far is, what is the mechanism or method for removing him from office? Will they organize a march on the White House? How about getting an impeachment vote? Stomp their feet and hold their breath until they're blue?

Who would enforce a court order? If and when it were eventually presented to the Supreme Court, does anyone believe they'd actually challenge a sitting president's right to hold office? "See here, Mr. Obama, blah blah blah blah blah, and you have sixty days to ... ah, what? Hand the country over to Biden? (Please, God, no.) Can you imagine the civil unrest?

Hmmmm, maybe that's what they're dreaming about.

[fortinbras]

From the Huffington Post:

James Von Brunn Apparently Part Of Obama "Birther" Movement
First Posted: 06-10-09 06:00 PM | Updated: 06-10-09 06:13 PM

Among the myriad of disturbing qualities of James Von Brunn, the 88-year-old man who shot and killed a security officer inside the Holocaust Museum on Wednesday, is his apparent belief that Barack Obama is not a citizen of the United States and therefore has no right to the presidency.

The reason it sticks out is that, even among Von Brunn's other characteristics -- including heavy streaks of anti-Semitism, disdain for the federal government, and threads of white supremacy -- being a "birther" has a modicum of political credibility.

Certainly, the vast majority of people who are skeptical of Obama's birth in the state of Hawaii tend to be harmless conspiracy theorists. And there has been no suggestion that Von Brunn's distrust of the president's citizenship solely drove him to this violent act.

"In addition to being a birther," said Abraham Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League, "he also believed that Hitler didn't kill enough Jews. He had a history of anti-Semitic, hateful views."

Indeed a "birther" mindset is more a symptom of extremism than a cause.

That said, the extent to which the birther ethos has been driven into the political narrative by legitimate figures, and subsequently picked up by extremist elements, is noteworthy. In an obvious reference to questions about Obama's birthplace, Rep. Bill Posey, R-FL, has introduced a bill in the House requiring {future} presidential candidates to file a copy of their birth certificates. Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-V.A, has joined him as a co-sponsor of that measure.

Several weeks ago, conservative reporter Lester Kinsolving, asked Robert Gibbs why the president would not "respond to the petition to requests of 400,000 American citizens by releasing a certified copy of his long-form birth certificate listing hospital?"

Outside political circles, but still within the national spotlight, the view is much more widely articulated. As late as two weeks ago, for instance, Fox News was running a headline on its website, asking: "Should Obama Release Birth Certificate? Or Is This Old News?" On Wednesday morning, moreover, talk show host Rush Limbaugh sardonically compared President Obama to God, noting that, "God does not have a birth certificate either."

Remarks like these aren't inherently violent. They can be picked up, however, by individuals who are.

"I think it is perfectly obvious that the birther movement has gained a large following on the radical right," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center. "It may have emerged form the right wing of the Republican Party. But the reality is that it has been adopted by the most noxious elements out there and certainly John Von Brunn represents that element."

Neither Posey nor Goodlatte's office returned request for comment.

A copy of Von Brunn's own birther posting (posted on a Norwegian website on Dec. 2, 2008) now appears on the Talking Points Memo website:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docume ... php?page=1

[Joey Smith]

Stupid people believe in stupid things. The "birthers" and "911 conspiratorists" are the same nuts who will end up believing in NESARA (if they don't already), and its is the same phenomena: A few promoters making money selling books, and tapes, and advertising for their radio shows, while a bunch to poor, dumb idiots soak it all in and hand over their few remaining Quatloos in a search for a truth long ago established but which they are in denial.

[grixit]

The most bizarre part is te suggestion that he originally went by "Barry Sotero", and later deliberately changed his name to "Barack Hussein Obama". Right, as an adult, a savvy university grad stepping into the spinning knives of Chicago politics, he decided to go by a name guaranteed to jar a large number of voters.

[jimni]

I once met Obama's mother in a bar in Hawaii. She was sitting alone, and I was with a friend. I said to my friend, "Look at that old douche bag down at the other end of the bar." We had been drinking quite a while, and you know how loudly drunks talk. Well, she heard what I said and very indignantly said, "I beg your pardon; I am not a douche bag!" I said, "I'm sorry ma'am. Please forgive me and let me buy you a drink." She said, "Well, OK, I accept your apology and I'll let you buy me a drink." The bartender asked her what she'd like to have, and she said, "I'll have a vinegar and water."

Since Obama's mother was a douche bag, he is vinegar and water and therefore not eligible to be President.

[jimni]

Stupid people believe in stupid things. The "birthers" and "911 conspiratorists" are the same nuts who will end up believing in NESARA (if they don't already), and its is the same phenomena: A few promoters making money selling books, and tapes, and advertising for their radio shows, while a bunch to poor, dumb idiots soak it all in and hand over their few remaining Quatloos in a search for a truth long ago established but which they are in denial.

I question the sanity of anyone who believes in NESARA. However, after having viewed the World Trade Center buildings coming down in the free-fall fashion of imploded buildings, I absolutely believe 911 was carried out by operatives inside our own government. Anybody with any common sense at all has to come to the same conclusion. Building #7 wasn't even hit by an airplane, and only had a small fire in the top floors, yet it came down in the same way as building 1 and 2. There are groups of inteligent and reasonable professional architecs who say those buildings could not have come down they way they did without being imploded. There are professional airline and military pilots who say that it is impossible for amatuer pilots to have flown those aircraft into those buildings. They had to have been flown in under radio control. Then there's Dr. Steven Jones, a former professor at BYU, who said after examining pieces of melted metal from the buildings, that they were imploded with thermite.

I suppose, Joey, that you also believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy.

[Pottapaug1938]

I question the sanity of anyone who believes in NESARA. However, after having viewed the World Trade Center buildings coming down in the free-fall fashion of imploded buildings, I absolutely believe 911 was carried out by operatives inside our own government. Anybody with any common sense at all has to come to the same conclusion. Building #7 wasn't even hit by an airplane, and only had a small fire in the top floors, yet it came down in the same way as building 1 and 2. There are groups of inteligent and reasonable professional architecs who say those buildings could not have come down they way they did without being imploded. There are professional airline and military pilots who say that it is impossible for amatuer pilots to have flown those aircraft into those buildings. They had to have been flown in under radio control. Then there's Dr. Steven Jones, a former professor at BYU, who said after examining pieces of melted metal from the buildings, that they were imploded with thermite.

I suppose, Joey, that you also believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy.

This is so typical of truther foolishness. Ignorance is turned into expertise. I took a look at these issues a while back; and there are explanations out there, for those who are willing to read and comprehend, which explain why building #7 collapsed. As for the so-called experts, it's possible to find an expert who will say that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, if you look long enough.

In Boston, back around 1970, part of a building under construction collapsed. it was about 15 stories high, as I recall. A portion of the uppermost floor collapsed; and the deadweight of the concrete and steel, in the collpased portion, was sufficient to create force sufficient to cause the floors below it to collapse, exactly as the WTC towers did -- and there was no jet fuel present to burn with high heat, enough to weaken steel skeletons of a building.

At any rate, jimni, the facts are out there. You only have to be willing to listen to what they have to say, even if the truth is politically unpleasant to you.

[Imalawman]

Stupid people believe in stupid things. The "birthers" and "911 conspiratorists" are the same nuts who will end up believing in NESARA (if they don't already), and its is the same phenomena: A few promoters making money selling books, and tapes, and advertising for their radio shows, while a bunch to poor, dumb idiots soak it all in and hand over their few remaining Quatloos in a search for a truth long ago established but which they are in denial.

I question the sanity of anyone who believes in NESARA. However, after having viewed the World Trade Center buildings coming down in the free-fall fashion of imploded buildings, I absolutely believe 911 was carried out by operatives inside our own government. Anybody with any common sense at all has to come to the same conclusion. Building #7 wasn't even hit by an airplane, and only had a small fire in the top floors, yet it came down in the same way as building 1 and 2. There are groups of inteligent and reasonable professional architecs who say those buildings could not have come down they way they did without being imploded. There are professional airline and military pilots who say that it is impossible for amatuer pilots to have flown those aircraft into those buildings. They had to have been flown in under radio control. Then there's Dr. Steven Jones, a former professor at BYU, who said after examining pieces of melted metal from the buildings, that they were imploded with thermite.

I suppose, Joey, that you also believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy.

Sheeesh....old news buddy. See http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 27842.html

If you can read that and still believe in the 9/11 "truth" movement then I would like to sell you some Iowa oceanfront property.

[jimni]

An episode of Mythbusters? Are you kidding? Anyone with half a brain can watch the Magruder film in slow motion and clearly see that Kennedy took a round in the forehead. Mythbusters my ass.

[Nikki]

An episode of Mythbusters? Are you kidding? Anyone with half a brain can watch the Magruder film in slow motion and clearly see that Kennedy took a round in the forehead. Mythbusters my ass.

You're nearly qualified. Work on getting up there.

[jimni]

Sheeesh....old news buddy. See http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 27842.html

If you can read that and still believe in the 9/11 "truth" movement then I would like to sell you some Iowa oceanfront property.

Go to http://www.ae911truth.org and read what this group of professional architects and engineers have to say about 911. If after you read what they have to say and you still believe Popular Mechanics, then I will buy your oceanfront property in Iowa.

[Joey Smith]

Looks like it is just one architect or engineer, and of course there are wingnuts in every profession.

The 9/11 conspiracy stuff is right up there with Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, i.e., not a shred of truth in it, but a lot of wingnuts trying to make money selling books and tapes convincing other wingnuts that it *might* be true.

[Joey Smith]

There are professional airline and military pilots who say that it is impossible for amatuer pilots to have flown those aircraft into those buildings.

I am an amateur pilot and could have done that no problemo. It is not difficult to fly an airplane and even a large airplane (especially in the "severe clear" conditions that prevailed on 9/11); it is difficult to land a large airplane when you are a good 50 feet above the runway as it flairs on touchdown, especially if there is any significant crosswind.

After the Oklahoma City Murrah Building tragedy, there was the same conspiro-babble, including statements from one retired general that it was an "atomic blast" that brought down the building, nevermind that there was no evidence of radiation of any kind around.

But you keep believing what you want to believe -- who knows, maybe someday you'll spot Nessie too.

[webhick]

But you keep believing what you want to believe -- who knows, maybe someday you'll spot Nessie too.

He doesn't like to be called "Nessie". He prefers "Eliot" or, if you can't remember that, "The Supreme Ruler of the Rubber Duckie Society."

[Judge Roy Bean]

...There are professional airline and military pilots who say that it is impossible for amatuer pilots to have flown those aircraft into those buildings. ...

There are "professional" airline pilots who believe they don't have to pay taxes, too.

My wife could drive a modern passenger jet into a tall building, and she's even afraid of the simulators.

[LPC]

Anyone with half a brain can watch the Magruder film in slow motion and clearly see that Kennedy took a round in the forehead.

Zapruder.

If you want to be taken seriously, you at least have to get the names right.

(And I don't believe that Oswald was the assassin, but that's another issue for another day.)

[Gregg]

Beat me to it Dan. But you have to admit, making the film source a Nixon White house aid would fit nicely into the conspiracy theory myths....


And I'm more than a little surprised you doubt Oswald as the shooter. When I was a kid I read every conspiracy theory book I could get my hands on about it, and in the end found Gerald Posner and of all people Mark Furman the most credible accounts...

And not only Mythbusters, but another show on NatGeo did a very good show where they recreated the conditions as exactly as could be hoped for, used a anatomically proper dummy etc.. and just like Mythbusters, the placement and effect of the wounds was so close as to be almost spooky.

As for flying an airliner into a building, I'm a pilot with 2600 hours, 2300 of them in eggbeaters, and I could do it without much effort. A good pilot can plant the wheels on the runway numbers with ease almost every time, which is a lot more difficult to do than hitting a 110 story building. Not to even bring up Navy pilots who can land a jet on a boat in the dark. (and that's a good piece of flying, that they do every single day)

[jimni]

To those of you who think an amatuer pilot can fly a jumbo jet into a skyscraper; you talk like a man with a paper asshole.

[grixit]

To those of you who think an amatuer pilot can fly a jumbo jet into a skyscraper; you talk like a man with a paper asshole.

Seriously, do you realize how stupid that sounds? That's like saying an amateur driver can't speed off the edge of a cliff.

An amateur pilot steers a plane towards a building, what do you think is going to happen? An angel appears and shoves the plane away, saying "experts only"?

The difference between an amateur and an expert is that the expert has a good chance of steering towards the building and then veering away *without* hitting it.