National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[notorial dissent]

First and foremost, let me be very clear that I think Darash et al are 1) incredibly stupid, 2) incredibly and willfully ignorant of their country's gov't, history and law, and 3) extremely poor excuses for whatever they are. That being said, I agree with fortinbras, I DON'T think he/they are guilty of treason, and most certainly not as it is defined in our legal system. I do think they are unquestionably guilty of counterfeit of legal process, intent upon paper terrorism and extortion by threatening gov't officials, sedition, and implicitly, and perhaps explicitly the overthrow and destruction of our duly constituted legal gov't, and based on some of their later comments ultimately on violence when they don't get their own way. That is what I do think they are guilty of.

[Arthur Rubin]

The delusions Darash has about the power of NLA are growing. On tonight's call he declared that he would be forming an "elite" leadership group that would meet in private (so much for NLA's so-called transparency!). Only one person from each of the states is allowed to be in this elite group, and you have to petition Darash personally to be considered for this illustrious role.

How many of the 50 (51?) will be FBI agents?

[notorial dissent]

If they can spell and read without moving their lips it'll be a dead giveaway.

[fortinbras]

If this was posted previously, I missed it. But the Kent Hovind thread led to a Facebook page (Sui Juris Law) that had posted on it a link to Darah's Aug. 14, 2014 letter to all federal judges ....
http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/08/8-25- ... ce-to.html

... it doesn't seem to threaten them nor try to tell them to do anything, apart from instruction to regard anything that violates "the common law", the Magna Carta, or the Holy Bible as treason. An unforgivable destruction of several trees.

[LightinDarkness]

Regarding the legality (or lack thereof) of NLA, I see it at three levels:

(1) Legal - Although its crazy, there is nothing illegal about playing common law grand jury. As long as the people involved don't threaten, harass, or attempt to give the illusion of having actual legal power they can do what they want and indict the entire country. The NLA was in this category until it started actually filing its gibberish paperwork and threatening judges/sheriffs/court staff.

(2) Illegal - We get into the obviously not legal territory when they start doing all this simulated legal process stuff. Even in states without a law against fictitious legal processes, they would still probably be on the line for threatening people in their fake indictments.

(3) Illegal and Treason - I don't throw around the phrase "treason" lightly, but I am pretty sure planning an armed revolution using your own militias, creating militia armories, and planning to "take power" by "emergency force" falls into the obvious treason category. To be fair, Darash has not directly stated he plans to do this - but he has done everything but directly state it in his last conference call.

[LightinDarkness]

If this was posted previously, I missed it. But the Kent Hovind thread led to a Facebook page (Sui Juris Law) that had posted on it a link to Darah's Aug. 14, 2014 letter to all federal judges ....
http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/08/8-25- ... ce-to.html

... it doesn't seem to threaten them nor try to tell them to do anything, apart from instruction to regard anything that violates "the common law", the Magna Carta, or the Holy Bible as treason. An unforgivable destruction of several trees.

Darash isn't as dumb as he talks, he is careful about what I would call direct threats. I don't think there have ever been any direct ones in any of the gibbersh paperwork. What there have been is vague promises of the "wrath of the people" and "showing no mercy" to any judges who don't sign their mandumbass writs or any clerks who reject their gibberish. He also made a reference to execution by firing squad to anyone who seriously defies the NLA, but it wasn't a targeted threat and was on their weekly propaganda calls.

[LPC]

The delusions Darash has about the power of NLA are growing. On tonight's call he declared that he would be forming an "elite" leadership group that would meet in private (so much for NLA's so-called transparency!). Only one person from each of the states is allowed to be in this elite group, and you have to petition Darash personally to be considered for this illustrious role.

Its the type of "planning" that Darash described doing with this group that is probably of a lot of interest to the FBI. He was intentionally vague, but talked about making "plans" for "emergencies" - including establishing militias and militia armories. Reading between the lines, that seems to be his alternative plan B when (although he thinks its "if") his gibberish paperwork fails. He thinks hes going to helm some sort of sov'run revolution, which will be coordinated by the elite group.

He's beginning to sound like a Jim Jones wannabe, but without the charisma.

[PatriotTrue7]

Hi. I'm new here. Just found this site and read this whole thread, among others. Bear with me here.

I come from the Operation American Spring Failure FB page. Operation American Spring was organized by former Col. Harry Riley to bring 10-30 million "patriots" to Washington to force the resignation of Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Boehner, Holder, etc. by an Arab Spring type show of force. After many months of hype, about 1,000 people showed up. For about a month afterwards, six or seven people remained on the mall during the day as a "show of force" so that the powers that be would know they meant business. They intended to set up "tribunals" run by folks like Trey Gowdy, et al, to try basically all of Congress, the President, anyone who disagreed with them for treason and then have them executed. There were many discussions in the leaad up to the May 16 event about whether the masses would be armed or not. The whole thing was seditious from start to finish but inasmuch as it was totally unsuccessful, I guess the FBI decided not to do anything about it. You can read their mission statement and three part plan here: http://www.oas2014.com/ and find their forums here: http://www.operationamericanspring.org/ ... tivity.php Their FB page was goated, lol.

However, one thing that came out of it was The Mark Connors Show. Mark Connors, a wannabe country western singer and self proclaimed journalist, who was at Bundy, livestreamed from his tour bus the OAS event for 54 hours straight until another guy agreed to take over so Mark could sleep. This led to callers asking for Connors to keep the show going as a place for "patriots" to gather and spread the truth. This attracted about a hundred regular viewers and gained hosts to do shows (Fireman John in the mornings, Jennifer Mills [Mark's girlfirend] and Mark in the afternoons, Ricky White in the evenings, and Jeffrey Sisk at night, early mornings.) The show has since largely imploded because Mark, quite the conman, could not squeeze enough money out of the old, white, disabled and retired folks he was scamming. Ricky White is currently on leave caring for his wife who just had back surgery. You can, however, find old shows in the archives here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation ... ng-live%20 Unfortunately, I don't think Ricky White ever figured out how to record his shows.

Okay, all that background to say that Ricky White is a Common Law Grand Juror through the NLA for Archuleta County in Colorado. Stephen Keno, his friend, is also one and was a frequent caller on the show. They even aired some of the weekly calls on air. Ricky spent most of his shows promoting the NLA and hooking up callers with their state coordinators. Ricky and Keno claim that in either Archuleta County or a bordering county that they were able to use their CLGJ to get the undersheriff thrown in jail.

Is there anyone following this roving disaster who can confirm that? Because they mentioned it every chance they got as a "big success" showing the "great power" of the CLGJ.

[Famspear]

.....Ricky and Keno claim that in either Archuleta County or a bordering county that they were able to use their CLGJ to get the undersheriff thrown in jail.

Is there anyone following this roving disaster who can confirm that? Because they mentioned it every chance they got as a "big success" showing the "great power" of the CLGJ.

Welcome to Quatloos!

I'm not following that roving disaster and I cannot confirm it. However, for anyone who would want to do some research, here are a few questions.

What was the name of the undersheriff who was supposedly thrown in jail?

When was this jailing supposed to have occurred? This year? Last year? Many years ago?

[LaVidaRoja]

If you search "Denver Post under sheriff jailed" you will find a story reported in June on an under sheriff named Robin Cook who was forced to resign in 2013 and served a ONE MONTH term this year. Charges included using a bit over $5,000 of department funds for personal matters. The story also related that when Mr. Cook was with the Maricopa County Sheriff's Posse, he got into trouble for driving an official vehicle to a former girlfriend's home, breaking in, and taking a dog.

I doubt that our sov cit hero had anything to do with the investigation.

[Slim Cognito]

Hi. I'm new here. Just found this site and read this whole thread, among others. Bear with me here...

... Is there anyone following this roving disaster who can confirm that? Because they mentioned it every chance they got as a "big success" showing the "great power" of the CLGJ.

Hi PT7. Just for the heck of it, I googled Archuleta County undersheriff to see if there were any old news posts. The current US is a man who took over in 2012 from another man who retired after serving "42 years" but not clear how many he served as undersheriff. It doesn't appear anyone who served as undersheriff in Archuleta County has been arrested in the past few years.

When googling "Colorado county undersheriff arrested," the only hit I get is Montezuma County, (two counties east) where, in 2013, Undersheriff Robin Cronk was arrested for credit card misuse and abuse of taxpayer funds. There are several news posts on-line. Here's a copy/paste from The Denver Channel (.com). "...The Associated Press said officials became suspicious after Cronk's spending on a department-issued credit card suddenly increased this year..." That doesn't sound to me like something an ordinary citizen or CLGJ would have access to so I'm going to say they had nothing to do with his arrest.

[Slim Cognito]

Hello LaVidaRoja. After posting my reply, I see you'd already posted the same info. I'm new here and not sure of the etiquette for duplicate posts. If my mine needs to be deleted to avoid clutter, let me know.

[LaVidaRoja]

Not really a duplicate, Slim. Just two different views of the story. Together, we've given anyone looking a pretty clear way to find the source documents. The only thing lacking is the CLGC version of the matter.

[PatriotTrue7]

Well, when the Mark Connors show imploded, Jeffrey Sisk (the only host I had any respect for despite his complete RWNJobbery) started his own show (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/newsamericatv) that runs 6-10 pm weekdays. Stephen Keno often calls in and is in the ustream social stream chat. I troll these shows and chats because the sovcits occasionally make overt threats to kill law enforcement in the social stream and I like to report them to the FBI. My husband is a law enforcement officer and a member of his agency was shot by a sovcit a few months ago. Anyway. I will see if I can get ahold of Keno through the social stream and get the name of the undersheriff and the county it happened in and when it happened. I'll keep you posted.

[Gregg]

Regarding the legality (or lack thereof) of NLA, I see it at three levels:
/snip...


(3) Illegal and Treason - I don't throw around the phrase "treason" lightly, but I am pretty sure planning an armed revolution using your own militias, creating militia armories, and planning to "take power" by "emergency force" falls into the obvious treason category. To be fair, Darash has not directly stated he plans to do this - but he has done everything but directly state it in his last conference call.

Treason something I kind of get pretty picky about myself, it is the only crime defined in the Constitution,

"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Note the pre-civil war grammar where the United States are referred to in plural, but I also can't help but remember that no-one was prosecuted for Treason even as a result of conduct during the civil war....and you have to think that if Jeff Davis didn't commit treason, our modern day idiots are, so far, just posers.

[notorial dissent]

PatriotTrue7 welcome to Quatloos.

[wserra]

Anyway. I will see if I can get ahold of Keno through the social stream and get the name of the undersheriff and the county it happened in and when it happened.

But welcome to Quatloos, PT7.

[LightinDarkness]

Hmm, I would love to know more of the back story on the whole under-sheriff thing. What series of events could happen to lead NLA sov'runs to think they were responsible? I wonder if its simple delusion (projecting NLA activities onto news events) or if they were somehow involved in filing gibberish against the guy(probably totally unrelated to the real investigation)

By the way, Gregg - Wouldn't planning an armed revolution with NLA organized militias constitute "levying war" against the United States? I'm not saying he would ever get charged with it, but it seems to be in the "very bad crimes" category - its above and beyond just simulating legal processes and filing gibberish. Its treasonous activity, even but maybe there is a better word for it.

[Pottapaug1938]

Regarding the legality (or lack thereof) of NLA, I see it at three levels:
/snip...


(3) Illegal and Treason - I don't throw around the phrase "treason" lightly, but I am pretty sure planning an armed revolution using your own militias, creating militia armories, and planning to "take power" by "emergency force" falls into the obvious treason category. To be fair, Darash has not directly stated he plans to do this - but he has done everything but directly state it in his last conference call.

Treason something I kind of get pretty picky about myself, it is the only crime defined in the Constitution,

"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Note the pre-civil war grammar where the United States are referred to in plural, but I also can't help but remember that no-one was prosecuted for Treason even as a result of conduct during the civil war....and you have to think that if Jeff Davis didn't commit treason, our modern day idiots are, so far, just posers.

If I recall correctly, when Abraham Lincoln agreed to meet Confederate VP Alexander Stephens in early 1865, along with some other high Confederate dignitaries, Lincoln essentially told them that he considered their actions to be treasonous. The fact that no Confederates were prosecuted for treason was probably a political decision, made to try to reunite the country after a bloody civil war. The way I see it, the Confederates DID commit treason by levying war against the United States.

[Gregg]

I agree the decision not to try anyone for treason was political, Jefferson Davis was held for years at Fortress Monroe before being released without trial or formal charge. Robert E. Lee, and by extension anyone who served in uniform, was not charged because of the terms Grant wrote into the surrender agreement at Appomattox (terms witch were duplicated in the other subsequent surrender instruments) which stated

9 April 1865

We, the undersigned Prisoners of War, belonging to the Army of Northern Virginia, having been this day surrendered by General Robert E. Lee, C.S.A., Commanding said Army to Lieut. Genl. U. S. Grant, Commanding Armies of United States, do hereby give our solemn parole of honor that we will not hereafter serve in the armies of the Confederate States or in any military capacity whatever, against the United States of America or under aid to the enemies of the latter, until properly exchanged in such manner as shall be mutually approved by the respective authorities.

Done at Appomattox Court
House, Va. this 9th day of
April, 1865.

R. E. Lee, Genl.
W. H. Taylor, Lt. Colonel
Charles S. Venaber, Lt. Col. adjutant
Charles Marshal, Lt. Col. & Inspector General
W. E. Pentin, Lt. Col.
Gilbert B. Cooke, Major
H. S. Young, Major

The within named men will not be disturbed by United States authorities, so long as they observe their parole and the laws in force where they may reside.

That last line effectively granted them immunity. President Johnson wanted badly to try and hang Lee, but Grant, who was hugely popular at the time bluntly told Johnson that he would publicly oppose it as the terms he had granted forbid it. As Johnson at that time had some serious problems with Congress, he gave up on going after the Confederate figures.

Anyhow, I think sedition is a better term for opposing the Federal Government for anything short of taking up arms, and after that it gets kind of grey to me. On its face, grabbing your guns and charging the capitol is a pretty good example of treason, but (and the lawyers here might comment on this) I kind of think that the civil war history might give a lot of people with a good lawyer enough precedent to avoid a prosecution based on only that.

There, I got to show of my history trivia, so have at it...