Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

[The Observer]

I think it is safe to say yea on this one. Another story provide some more interesting issues:

1) 5 cows from his herd wandered onto Interstate 15 that runs by Bundy's ranch; one ended up being hit by a passing car. The occupants are suing Cliven for injuries caused by the cow. Responsible livestock owners don't let their stock run loose onto freeways.

2) Bundy's original herd was 150 cows, now it is estimated to be at nearly 1,000 head of cattle, feral, not vaccinated or tagged/branded as you would expect for a livestock enterprise of this size. Responsible livestock owners don't let their stock get to numbers that they cannot manage and and keep track of.

3) The herd, such as it is, is grazing on semi-arid land with little water, especially given the ongoing drought of the last several years in the southwest US. BLM has already noted that the cattle have overgrazed the area to the point that it has threatened the desert tortoises that naturally inhabit this area. Responsible livestock owners don't overgraze their pastures, by rotating the herd through a series of pastures.

I think the points above make it clear that Cliven is a skin-flint and thinks he can raise beef on the hoof without spending any money whatsoever in managing the animals. I don't think that there is any doubt that Bundy has not purchased sufficient fodder for these cows, that he has little to no idea where any and how many of the cows are at any particular time, he has no system in place for moving and controlling the herd, and that as the weather continues to heat up, this could turn into a very bad situation.

[notorial dissent]

As Observer points out, these are not animals being cared for, they are at large, and totally feral. The land they are "living" on is poor ground for much of anything, and one of the main reasons the BLM establishes grazing permits is so that only a specific number of animals can be on a given piece of ground that can support them. The number of animals per allotment is small because the ground can support only a small number before the ground is damaged and the animals are out of browse. There are now far more animals at large than the ground can support. Cattle are subject to a number of very nasty and communicable diseases, several of which are contagious to humans or other animals, offtimes fatally. Properly cared for livestock are routinely vaccinated for these diseases, Bundy's have not been.

[grixit]

Great, so now we can't even confiscate the cattle and make them into food for the poor.

[notorial dissent]

Considering the parasites those cattle most certainly have, and the communicable diseases they very likely have, I wouldn't feed anything coming from them to a dog, or anything else for that matter, I didn't like.

[The Observer]

Considering the parasites those cattle most certainly have, and the communicable diseases they very likely have, I wouldn't feed anything coming from them to a dog, or anything else for that matter, I didn't like.

I bet you would feed them to a Freeman.

[The Observer]

Great, so now we can't even confiscate the cattle and make them into food for the poor.

It almost sounds like you were proposing impromptu bullfighting along the I-15...

[Lambkin]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/feds ... ehind-bars

Federal prosecutors argued in court papers Wednesday against releasing Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy in the criminal case stemming from the 2014 armed Bunkerville standoff with law enforcement.

[notorial dissent]

I'll bet they are, considering that if he ever gets out the door they'll never see him again short of a major military expedition. I don't think Talibundy Sr is ever going to see the outside of a jail cell again, short of in a winding sheet. With any luck, he'll have most of his sons to keep him company. You know what they say, "the family that gaols together stays together", or some such nonsense.

[Lambkin]

Weird but OK
http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/bund ... e-standoff

The majority of the 19 defendants charged in the 2014 Bunkerville standoff — including rancher Cliven Bundy and four of his sons — indicated Friday they want to exercise their constitutional rights and go to trial as soon as possible.

The move appeared to surprise prosecutors, who told a federal judge that they had previously obtained the support of most of the defendants for an eight-month trial delay until February.

Many of the defendants and their lawyers announced in court that they had changed their minds, prompting the lead prosecutor in the case, Steven Myhre, to suggest some were “playing games” with the “extremely serious charges” they are facing.

[The Observer]

Carol Bundy, wife of Cliven has posted a Youtube video.

[Pottapaug1938]

Weird but OK
http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/bund ... e-standoff

The majority of the 19 defendants charged in the 2014 Bunkerville standoff — including rancher Cliven Bundy and four of his sons — indicated Friday they want to exercise their constitutional rights and go to trial as soon as possible.

The move appeared to surprise prosecutors, who told a federal judge that they had previously obtained the support of most of the defendants for an eight-month trial delay until February.

Many of the defendants and their lawyers announced in court that they had changed their minds, prompting the lead prosecutor in the case, Steven Myhre, to suggest some were “playing games” with the “extremely serious charges” they are facing.

They have probably been perusing their pocket Constitutions, and have identified a provision or two which they believe will mandate the immediate dropping of all charges and their immediate release.

[The Observer]

Maybe the "right to a speedy trial" provision in the Constitution. Of course, the Supreme Court has already established what constitutes a "speedy trial" and I have no doubt that the Bundys' idea of a "speedy trial" is out of touch with the law says a "speedy trial" is.

[Jeffrey]

I believe the same thing happened in the OJ Simpson trial. You can waive your right to speedy trial or not:

https://www.quora.com/Why-would-a-defen ... eedy-trial

Seen a few videos arguing that in the OJ trial it was a smart move since it reduced the time the prosecution had to prepare their case, but it also reduces the time you have to prepare a defense.

Originally, defense attorneys had called for a speedy trial, hoping to perhaps catch the prosecution off-guard for being unprepared in such a brief period of time. Under state law, a murder defendant is entitled to go to trial 60 days after his indictment resulting from a preliminary hearing. A defendant may waive the 60 days and seek more time before going to trial. However, Simpson's attorneys chose not to use the waiver.

http://articles.philly.com/1994-10-20/n ... wn-simpson

Of course, this all implies there's some logic behind the move by the Sovrun people. Feds seem to have an airtight case all backed up by YouTube videos and Facebook posts the defendants themselves posted online.

[jcolvin2]

I'll bet they are, considering that if he ever gets out the door they'll never see him again short of a major military expedition. I don't think Talibundy Sr is ever going to see the outside of a jail cell again, short of in a winding sheet. With any luck, he'll have most of his sons to keep him company. You know what they say, "the family that gaols together stays together", or some such nonsense.

My experience is that the BOP ordinarily does not house co-defendants at the same facility. So Cliven may not have his sons to keep him company, except in spirit.

[notorial dissent]

I was speaking figuratively, I can't imagine them allowing them to be in the same lockup, although if they go to a Super Max as I expect, it really won't make any difference since they will never see another soul other than their guards for the rest of their lives.

I have to agree that I too think the Talibundy wanting to go to immediate trial is foolish on their part. I am fairly sure that NV is going to get first whack at them since it is the older crime, and i would bet that the prosecution there has their cases all ready to go except to add on the additional charges. They've had several years of prep where the Talibundy lawyers will have comparatively had months. Really really stupid on their part, but then again, they think they've found the magic bullet in their misinterpretation of the Constitution that the Fed CANNOT own land outside of DC, so therefore there cannot be a crime, they are of course VERY VERY WRONG, as there is a whole body of law saying the contrary, but they can waste their time and money on that when they should be trying to actually put on a defense. Of course considering the defense the chief Bundys have hired, it won't make any difference. If they thought KKKlayman was going to be the savior they are way too confused for this universe.

[Chaos]

thought this was Super Max:

[rogfulton]

Talibundy lawyers plan to show the Supremes decided United States v Oregon incorrectly. Latest defense filing requesting dismissal available in article.
http://patch.com/oregon/portland/oregon ... s-dont-own

"They believe in the Constitution, they believe in the Federal Government," (defense lawyer Mike) Arnold says. "They are patriots, not seditionists."

[Jeffrey]

So they're going to try to overturn 80 years of precedent?

[The Observer]

...[T]hey believe in the Federal Government," (defense lawyer Mike) Arnold says

Uh, there was a video from Cliven Bundy two years ago where he said he did not believe that the federal government existed. Is that video still available?

[ArthurWankspittle]

...[T]hey believe in the Federal Government," (defense lawyer Mike) Arnold says

Uh, there was a video from Cliven Bundy two years ago where he said he did not believe that the federal government existed. Is that video still available?

That's OK though because Mike (I'll take ethics for $10,000) Arnold is only representing Ammon isn't he?